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droshi

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Reply with quote  #1401 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakkamike
There may have been a few here already that have croaked or will while waiting.


lol, that gave me a laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silveradocanman

But seriously, out of all this banter, I wonder why people that live close to him don't cruise on over and "check in"?


I had just guessed Kansas isn't that close to many fig growers.
arachyd

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Reply with quote  #1402 
I don't know why people keep saying we knew up front it was a starter business or a risky proposition. The world is not funneled through this site. Many of us ordered from James' site directly which did not indicate any potential problems and therefore we had no reason to expect problems. He did not advertise on his site that it was a startup business. He gave no clue until he started posting pics here because he sent the same exact pics and captions to the email address I gave when I ordered from his site. He has been deceitful at best, fraudulent at worst. I cannot believe he is simply too broke or too busy to send out a single darn cutting to anyone even after hiring a helper. There's no excuse for it. He's got pics of a tunnel full of them and I don't know that it isn't the same tunnel from different angles in all the pics or that it's even his. I'm officially convinced he is a fraud who has managed to steal my money. If I receive my cuttings a year later I will still have been scammed out of over a year's worth of possible fig growth while he held my money.
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droshi

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Reply with quote  #1403 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arachyd
I don't know why people keep saying we knew up front it was a starter business or a risky proposition. The world is not funneled through this site. Many of us ordered from James' site directly...


I guess speak for yourself (or maybe you were but it doesn't sound like it)...I ordered from his site direct, but I did Google his handle "greenfin" and found this post. Information is so available I find ignorance a weak argument. If you don't value your money that much to put in a few minutes of time then why complain now about it so much?

Based on the time I joined, there wasn't any problems, but I recognized what it was (a kickstarter like proposal) from both his site as well as his first several posts on this thread.

Don't mistake me for trying to stick up for him or provide excuses for him. I don't know the guy and have only stated my beliefs. But stealing/scamming money I personally don't see even if the venture fails.
nunuorig

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Reply with quote  #1404 
Tired of the same ol' complaints? Finally realize you've been scammed? Folks, stop this madness now. You have a voice, be heard:

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

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arachyd

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Reply with quote  #1405 
I was speaking for myself. I did check and people gave good reports of his reputation...at the time.
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DomGardens

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Reply with quote  #1406 
Imagine if they have FMV
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Dom
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Galloway, New Jersey
VeryNew2Figs

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Reply with quote  #1407 
From the peanut gallery as I, again, have purchased no trees.

Comments on two points. 

First.  There's been references to "kickstarter" and creating this "program" to get "start-up capital."  Did I totally miss something?  In the original post didn't GreenFin refer to making this offer to "crank up the heat" in his four greenhouses he already had to grow these fig plants?  That sounded like he already had a going business when he made the offer.  It sounded to me like he wanted to heat his greenhouses better through the winter to help his banana plants, which he already had, and his tilapia fish tanks, which he already had.  Since that would increase the heating bill he'd use the extra space ("I have enough space to grow thousands") to grow more plants at "a little more than it costs me to grow."  That doesn't sound to me like a kickstarter program or asking for capital to grow a business.
On the other hand, when I saw the extra land planted with more trees I had the thought that, hmmm, this guy is going to have a lot of trees when this is over.  So, maybe effectively this has turned into a kickstarter or getting funds for capital improvement, but I don't see it as having been originally offered that way.

Second.  There's been references to people should not expect a refund, people knowing going in that there would no refund, "clear to me no refunds were possible."  I've got to disagree with that.  GreenFin did mention refunding and told people how to do it.  Some got refunds, some obviously didn't.  If I gave money for a product and couldn't get the product because it was the vendor's fault I would expect a refund, unless there was something upfront stating that this is a non-refundable payment.

Not being a "cheerleader" and not being a "you've been scammed, file your complaint."  Just making a couple comments along with the 1400 others.  I personally believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, although that has not always worked out for me. 

Here's hoping things work out.

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Chicago, Zone 6a (That's what they say, but it still feels like 5)
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  Hardy Chicago, Black Mission,
Brunswick, Kadota, Ischia Green, Desert King, Osborne Prolific, Lattarula, Malta Black, Violette de Bordeaux, Texas Everbearing, Beall, Adriatic, Nolo Pink Eyed Lady,  Celeste, Nero 600 m, Violetta Bayernfeing, Marseilles Black VS, Sucrette, Scott's Black, Large Negronne, Croatian, Raspberry Latte, Alma, Longue D'Aout, Pel de Bou, Lloral, Black Triana, Tarantella, Dominick's, Sweet Diana, Bronx Italian Purple, Ciccio Nero, Ronde de Bordeaux (gifted - thank you),  Panache (gifted - thank you) Lyon France (gifted - thank you).

~~~The Addiction is Real~~~
TheASTrader

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Reply with quote  #1408 
It still boggles the mind as to why Jon (hello Jon) continues to allow this thread to exist without ADMIN intervention of any sort, at the very least edits of !!!!!!!!!!!!!BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! written into the heading and in the body of the first post.  And even that might not be sufficient.  This is effectively an advert for Greenfin to perpetuate his scam of an operation and marks a stain on F4F.  And those who say ADMIN non-intervention is in keeping with public forums are just plain wrong.  This is not a laissez faire anarchy.  We have criminal and tort laws that can hold third party providers liable in the United States (ie: Craigslist cannot knowingly provide ad space for illegal and/or elicit activity).  And I don't think Jon has a legal department budget the size of Craigslist's.  The number of questionable sale/trade posts lately  littering among the legitimate posts are really marring the F4F experience and further contrasts the difference between this forum and the well moderated environment over at the "other" forum.  I'd like to see F4F thrive and remain the gold standard, as I've viewed it for years long before I even signed up as a participating member.



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gorgi

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Reply with quote  #1409 
IMO, this thread should be 'locked'.
With some RED (edited by administrator) caution/warning on post#1
Newer threads referring to it, can always be started by anyone.

This is a classical example of a very subtle 'con-artist-sham by a low-life James' who took advantage of our good F4F forum for his own $$$ benefit.
This thread can be used for any further legal action against him.

FBI - he should be in jail by now - fraud across State lines.
BBB - a  very Poor/Bad/Shady business practice.
Paypal account (future fake sales are still going on by him (e.g., website) & he needs to be stopped from stealing more other people's money).
Credit card account (also associate with Paypal).
Local (Kansas) farmer's union (as a member, he still has a good review; my butt).

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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
droshi

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Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #1410 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeryNew2Figs

First.  There's been references to "kickstarter" and creating this "program" to get "start-up capital."  Did I totally miss something?  


Yeah, you just missed that this was my opinion based on what I read at the time, not on an exact phrase that James said. But if you look at the system, it's the same. Pre-order for an unproven product or business. Wait for a longer than normal time. Get a cheap product, no share in the company (not an investment). Possibility of partial to total failure.

Just my opinion to help others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeryNew2Figs

Second.  There's been references to people should not expect a refund, people knowing going in that there would no refund, "clear to me no refunds were possible."  I've got to disagree with that. 


James may have refunded people, and later said he was willing...but up front it was clear to me that it wouldn't be possible. He didn't exactly say it one way or another, but more or less when people asked if he couldn't deliver, or not on time he said he could give some free cuttings or common varieties as compensation. So he offered something, but not refunds.

Later he offered refunds, I don't know why, but it was up to him, not a pre-planned thing. Just how I saw it. There's no harm in asking if it's what you want, but expectation setting is important and could have avoided a lot of headache for him.

For all those calling for the locking of the thread or keep badgering people who paid to do things. Take a hike. If you don't like the thread or what's happening, just don't post...it's pretty easy. If you're posting, it's either you've put in money and are upset (fine) or you haven't and are just stirring up fire for no reason, presumably for your own reasons.

It should be clear to anyone looking to get into this deal that now isn't the right time (if they've read the thread at all).
bamafig

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Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #1411 
lets visit James' initial post to clarify the refund issue, shall we?  He stated, "If any of the trees you order aren’t ready by July(2016), perhaps because of slow growth or excessive demand, I’ll ship the ones that are ready and give you the choice to either get a refund on the others or to wait and receive them whenever they're ready."  This is his FIRST post, not later down the line when issues arose.  Are we all clear?...carry on.
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4 (local) Celeste, Papa John, LSU Purple, Green Ischia, Brunswick, white marseilles,  BT,
Panache, Deanna, LSU Black, O'Rourke, Chicago Hardy

Wish list:  VDB, RDB
arachyd

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Posts: 293
Reply with quote  #1412 
I guess excessive demand would not really be a factor since he hasn't, to my knowledge, shipped out anything so he hasn't run out of stock. Slow growth? Figs can grow slowly but come one, he's showing pics of rooted plants which many of us ordered. Mail them out already.
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droshi

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Reply with quote  #1413 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamafig
lets visit James' initial post to clarify the refund issue, shall we?  He stated, "If any of the trees you order aren’t ready by July(2016), perhaps because of slow growth or excessive demand, I’ll ship the ones that are ready and give you the choice to either get a refund on the others or to wait and receive them whenever they're ready."  This is his FIRST post, not later down the line when issues arose.  Are we all clear?...carry on.


So asking my opinion, then jumping down my throat when given is cool? I told what I understood. To me that reads about PARTIAL refunds in the case a single tree isn't ready. So you order 10 fig trees, one isn't ready...clearly not the point we are at now.

BTW, do whatever you want, but I'm also out of this thread. I've reached the point where you are all too toxic to respond to anymore. Are we all clear?...carry on. 
bamafig

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Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #1414 
You are clear for takeoff.
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zone 8
4 (local) Celeste, Papa John, LSU Purple, Green Ischia, Brunswick, white marseilles,  BT,
Panache, Deanna, LSU Black, O'Rourke, Chicago Hardy

Wish list:  VDB, RDB
arachyd

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Posts: 293
Reply with quote  #1415 
That's cold.
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adipose

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Posts: 274
Reply with quote  #1416 
Quote:
Originally Posted by droshi


So asking my opinion, then jumping down my throat when given is cool? I told what I understood. To me that reads about PARTIAL refunds in the case a single tree isn't ready. So you order 10 fig trees, one isn't ready...clearly not the point we are at now.

BTW, do whatever you want, but I'm also out of this thread. I've reached the point where you are all too toxic to respond to anymore. Are we all clear?...carry on. 


True, he was offering to refund the difference, not 100%.  That said....are anyone's trees ready?  If they are not, then James would need to refund 100% since that is the difference from the shipped trees and the unshipped ones.

Keep in mind that commitment was made for July, when definitely none were ready.

Of course, the bigger issue is: how can anyone cash in on a partial refund, partial shipment, or otherwise, when James has been MIA for more than a month?  I cannot get a word out of him, let alone a shipment.

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bamafig

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Posts: 216
Reply with quote  #1417 
"That's cold".  well, snowflakes like it cold.  I dont know what else to tell them.  They were presenting a scenario that did not exist.  He obviously allowed for refunds from the very first post!  If this person wants to do charity work then send James a check.  Inform him via email and see if he responds to that.  Otherwise, gets ta steppin!
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zone 8
4 (local) Celeste, Papa John, LSU Purple, Green Ischia, Brunswick, white marseilles,  BT,
Panache, Deanna, LSU Black, O'Rourke, Chicago Hardy

Wish list:  VDB, RDB
TheASTrader

Registered:
Posts: 105
Reply with quote  #1418 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgi
IMO, this thread should be 'locked'.
With some RED (edited by administrator) caution/warning on post#1
Newer threads referring to it, can always be started by anyone.

This is a classical example of a very subtle 'con-artist-sham by a low-life James' who took advantage of our good F4F forum for his own $$$ benefit.
This thread can be used for any further legal action against him.

FBI - he should be in jail by now - fraud across State lines.
BBB - a  very Poor/Bad/Shady business practice.
Paypal account (future fake sales are still going on by him (e.g., website) & he needs to be stopped from stealing more other people's money).
Credit card account (also associate with Paypal).
Local (Kansas) farmer's union (as a member, he still has a good review; my butt).


I concur.  So what will it take for Jon to do something about this?  Reading through the posts, it looks like he'll swiftly act on cussing, but not act on criminal activity?  lol.  

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Lewi

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Reply with quote  #1419 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheASTrader


I concur.  So what will it take for Jon to do something about this?  Reading through the posts, it looks like he'll swiftly act on cussing, but not act on criminal activity?  lol.  


Maybe this thread is a warning for folks to buy from reputable dealers-nursuries, like Encanto...etc.

Kind of a 30 page train wreck of a P.S.A. :)

June 22 is the last day of spring, is the the date a unicorn hatches out of the egg?

I don't think it's fair to blame Jon, a lot of us were fooled.

In the meantime, I just got this proposal for a new housewife, she only costs seven dollars...I may have to learn Java script to make her feel at home:


best online image hosting

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West Florida / Panhandle (Central time). Can get cold for figs...down to 12 F twice in last five years. Zone 8a, not counting the recent "upgrade"

Lewi = Levite
arachyd

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Reply with quote  #1420 
If she lists raising figs and tilapia as some of her skills run away.
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TheASTrader

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Reply with quote  #1421 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewi
I don't think it's fair to blame Jon, a lot of us were fooled.


I don't see anyone blaming Jon.  I see myself and others expecting the admin to actually administer in the most basic of his functions.  

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pitangadiego

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Reply with quote  #1422 
No one is in favor of scams (well except for the scammer). I know I don't like getting ripped off,. but, if I am supposed to make sure that no one gets ripped off, to make sure that all offers of plants or cuttings are only from vetted and trustworthy "vendors", etc., to make sure that all people purchasing said plants and cuttings are adults who understand the risks of plants (any body never had a plant die just because), then it is time to kiss the forum good-bye. All of life is about evaluating information and the sources of that information to determine their accuracy, suitability, or usefulness to our own situation. The role of a forum is to provide for the exchange of information, not to guarantee it. Does anyone here believe everything that read in the newspaper (all three of you who still read one)? Does anyone here believe everything they hear on TV? Radio? Internet? Thank you for making my point.

I frequently have people that want to order plants that I don't have yet. They want to pay for them now, and receive them later. I have always refused all of those orders and all of those dollars. I don't ever want to be in the situation where I can't deliver something that I have sold. I don't know what the motivation of this seller was. Maybe it was a scam. Maybe he got in over his head and doesn't see any other way out of it.

I don't think that anyone reading this thread at this date will be induced to order plants. But it is clear that anyone who has ordered plants, and not received them, is not likely to receive them at this late date either, and that adding further posts to the thread will not benefit either group of people. Everything that needs to said has been said. If you are one of the people who hasn't received your plants from this individual, that makes me sad. I am not fond of being taken advantage of, either.

To those who want the thread locked; you have continued to post on a thread that you don't think needs any further posts. You might want to practice some self-restraint and stop posting on threads that you think should be locked. You should also resist the temptation to start another thread on the same subject because this one is locked.











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