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gorgi

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Reply with quote  #1 
Can somebody please  ID this fig, or at least point to the general type.
From the many (fruited) figs I have, it looks different.

I was given a couple of rootings from this tree,
which belongs to a local gardening club. Was
originally donated by a visiting master gardener.

Observed:

Earlier :  Young red eye (indicating  a dark kind of fig), also very prolific.

TODAY:
Season: Rather a  late fig (wonder how it was pruned)?!
Fruit: 1.75" (across) x 2" (long) roundish, with a rather long (~1") neck.
Colors:  Purple/brown/green skin with a light-strawberry pulp.
Taste: Juicy and very, very sweet (almost made me jump!) .
Eye: Big, reddish and somewhat splits (the famous 3-5 star shaped shallow kind).

George (NJ).
P.S. Since nobody has answered since my initial posting, I did some editing...

Attached Images
jpeg UK17_Tree.jpg (167.34 KB, 247 views)
jpeg UK17_FruitOnTree.jpg (61.62 KB, 201 views)
jpeg UK17_Fruit1.jpg (117.95 KB, 270 views)
jpeg UK17_Fruit2.jpg (126.62 KB, 218 views)
jpeg UK17_Pulp.jpg (99.03 KB, 203 views)


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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.

Herman2

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Reply with quote  #2 

Have you weighed,it.If it is 40 grams havy,then it is very similar with Sal's #2
Fruit and leaves + interior +shape,is very similar+ it splits.
Also,Color,and the fact is very sweet is similar too.The larger,cut open,fruit is Sal's#2

ps.Disregard third picture!!

Attached Images
jpeg Sal's002.jpg (170.49 KB, 128 views)
jpeg Sal's#1and#2fruits002.jpg (98.87 KB, 133 views)
jpeg Sal's#1and#2fruits002.jpg (98.87 KB, 143 views)
jpeg Sal2_Corleone_Blk_Sicilian001.jpg (118.03 KB, 146 views)

gorgi

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Reply with quote  #3 
Yes Herman,

The weight was 54 gram = 1.9 ounce.
And it does look like the one in your picture. Cannot compare leaves
with my specimen, since it was butchered and is still very small.

If it really is a Sal's #2, that would be something! Considering what I went
through to get it (from BelleClare). This one was hidden under my nose all
this time. I use a community GH less than 50 feet away (not the one shown
in the background). But then again, we wouldn't have known that it was a Sal's...

Now I have to find out who the donor master gardener was.

George (NJ).


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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
Herman2

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Reply with quote  #4 
Well George:I swear mine was weighing 50 grams but i use my wife kitcheen scale so i thought it show more,not being accurate,so conservativelly i said 40 grams.
The leaves in your picture look exactly like the ones on my little tree here,in my backyard.
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #5 
Herman,

Then a Sal's #2 it is!
Although I am still mesmerized  that this fig was so
close to me, and yet managed to elude me all this time.

Even the thick white rind (under-skin) is consistent with your pictures. Also it
being very prolific. The little specimen (BC#31) that I gave you, was not bigger than
a 2" x 1/8" rooted green  tip by this late-winter/early-spring, and yet through your
expertise, you made it produce some fruit same year.  Amazing indeed!

I do not like the fact that it is a late fig. My initial thoughts are that the mother fig
was pruned to ground. Have to go and re-examine or ask. Considering  that it
is a very sweet fig, the shallow star-like eye splitting, does not  worry  me that
much, I have seen much, much worse before.

As I said before, NONE of my fruited figs look anywhere near to it, and
also these 2 Sal's are 2 different fig beasts (like comparing apples with oranges).
Not sure how the names came about (maybe because the name Sal  is very
common in South Italy). And there may be more other  Sal's figs too....
I prefer the name for Sal #2 as 'Fico di Capo'  or  'Corleone' better.
Corleone, Sicily;  is known as the birthplace of several (dem) mafioso bosses.
Wonder which one owned this one, very possibly Al Capone?!

Useful links:
Sal's #2 (Corleone)
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/figs4funforum/vpost?id=2235614
Sal's #1 (EL)
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg101415465988.html

George (NJ).

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Reply with quote  #6 

Ciao,  Corleone, Sicilia was the town used in the movie the godfather, it became famous as the birthplace of Vito Andolini in the movies.  The town Corleone was actually a very convenient place to shoot alot of the movie simply because of the fact that Al Pacino  the actor had a large extended family still there in that town!!! Many of the crew and filmteam stayed with actual members of the Pacino family,  Thats what made that town particularly useful, just simply as being the ancestral home of Al Pacino's family.  The Mafiosi were very previlent in the area of Western Sicily especially around Palermo.  Also on the mainland of Italy around Calabria and Campania ( Napoli ).  But most credit for the Mafia term which is used much for Corleone comes from The actor Al Pacino. My friend who lives about 7 miles outside of Corleone says she gets angry when the people always want to refer to their village as Mafia, mostly from U.S. people mainly.  I will check out the godfather and see if theres any good fig tree's growing there, I bet their lovely.  I would imagine Don Corleone most likely had a Sal's fig in his back yard,  Naturally!!!!!  Ciao Ciao 


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Reply with quote  #7 
Sorry George, (S)al Capone wasn't Sicilian.  LOL
How late is this fig?  You just getting it now?
How late is the EL Sal's?
Herman2

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Reply with quote  #8 
George: Give it some time:When they are young they are late like that,Once they get older and stronger,they produce ripe fruits much earlier.
I can say this fig will be a middle season,when it matures(by forth year).
And you are right ,it does.nt split badly,and it did not sour,at all.
Also when it ripe in the right time Let's say Begining of Sept,(When Mature),then the tendencies to split,is lower.
PS.So we will call it "Corleone,Fico di capo".
How about Sal's #1?.How was Belleclare calling the other Sal's?
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #9 
Gene,
I just accidentally ran across a picture of some of  your (unkown, but so called)
St. Jerome fig fruits. The fruit shape and leaves (my specimen)  look somewhat
similar (not same). Pulp color and white rind (under-skin) seem different.
Can you please comment? Pay particular attention to the eye (not visible in your pic);
 my #17's have large red eyes (~1/4" dia.;  not open, but tend to shallow-star-split).
I can email your org. pic. if  ' not found'...
Regards,
George (NJ).


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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
Gene

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Reply with quote  #10 
Hi George,
Yes, I agree that the fruit and leaf shapes are very similar to my "St. Jerome" - while the rind appears thicker and pulp color is more red.  The fruit shape and skin coloring are amazingly similar.  Can't comment on the eye.  I removed my yard tree of St. Jerome to open up the canopy.  The yard was becoming too crowded.  I still have this variety in my orchard out side of town though.
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #11 
RE: Sal's(C?).
Happy thanksgiving to all!
I am particularly thankful to all you fig-crazy-nuts
(you know very well who all are)
that helped me built up my (becoming unmanageable) big fig collection...

I am happy to say that I just managed to salvage some good wood
trimmings just from the jaws (I mean literally) off a wood-chipper!

I would like to offer some;  you pay postage
(or send some good-fig-twig as a a trade).
One short/fat/good twig each person (or maybe 2, depending on the response).

I recommend that if you already have a KNOWN Sal's (Corleone), or if you
do not know how to root a fig-twig;  just not to respond at all...

Though one can never be 100% sure that this is the real Sal(C); all properties
indicate it being 95+% as such a fig - I am still in pursuit for the original source.

ONLY private emails (together with any different FF alias ID ) will be honored...
Please include the ship-to address.

And not knowing how exactly a private email works with this FF
(I  had some dismal  results with the other GW/FF),
one may use his/her own email server addressed to
gorg2[at]att[dot]net
[at] = @
[dot]=.






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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #12 
Adriano said that the fig shown in the 1st post (GM17),
looks like his Schar Italian.
Anybody has a picture of the Schar Italian fig?

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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
Bass

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Reply with quote  #13 


Gorgi,
Your fig is very similar to my Brooklyn Dark in the photo. Which is an unknown that I collected from Brooklyn. It ripens late, usually october when it rains a lot. The figs do split when it rains. Not the best fig for the Northeast especially if grown in ground. Last year it ripened a decent crop and it wasn't raining when it was ripening. The figs had a very tasty sweet and unique flavor.
Your photos are very similar to mine



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gorgi

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Reply with quote  #14 
Yes Bass,

It looks that we both found the same unknown fig!
The big question: What is the heck is it?
Thanks for the picture.
These unkown figs are a real nightmare.

It is very different from any of my other figs
(that have fruited).
Looks like a painted round golf ball attached to a "tee"
(stem) from a fig tree.
It is a very sweet and prolific fig, but LATE (here in NJ
and it does somewhat eye-shallow-split.

I still have some wood left.
Recommended for long/dry summer regions (else possibly potted).

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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
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Reply with quote  #15 
gorgi,

you wrote that you 'still have some wood left'.  does that mean you still have some cuttings available?  if so, how do you think this late unknown would do in my hoop?



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Elizabeth
near KC Missouri
zone5b
7b or higher in hoophouse
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #16 
moshepherdess,
I have zero/nada experience with hoop-houses! However, I can only
repeat saying about a (somewhat) similar experience last year. I tried
to ripen some late Black Madeira figs in a community greenhouse. I had
mentioned this on some fig forum before (somewhere). The result
was dismal; the fruit was tasteless and split. One IMPORTANT factor
I had forgotten to mention back then, was the fact that there was an
automatic overhead watering/misting system running, which probably
contributed to those ill effects.
You are welcome to try [this fig in the hoop house] for yourself...

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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #17 

LAST CALL!

I still have some (GM17) wood available for anyone.
First come, first served. Else, all is going compost...
Will get 3 (free) cuttings for postage (USPS Priority Mail ~$5).
Sweet, unique, prolific, but rather LATE (recomended/better suited
for long hot summer regions).



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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
loslunasfarms

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Reply with quote  #18 
Georgi, I will gladly adopt these for use in my orchard if you have extras.


sergio

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Reply with quote  #19 
Hi George,
your opening comment of the Sal's #2 so called, I have experienced it myself.
I met a Greek fellow in Shop Rite one fall day buying a box of figs. I walked over to him and asked him point blank if he had fig trees, and in his broken
English he told me that he had  3 fig trees and if I wanted that I could go  and pick a shoot of each. Cutting to the chase, after they grew last year, I was so surprised to see such a beautiful looking fig, yes it is late but the color the taste and hardiness it is well worth it, and your pictures are exactly
the same as mine. I tried to visit him last year but I was not successful in seeing him. Having said all this I have a back up plant in my garage with breba figs on it and was wondering if you do too. Thanks in advance,
                                     Serge, zone 7 in south Jersey
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #20 

Hi Sergio,

My (unkown) GM17 is just 2 year old. I will go and look at the mother
plant for any breba. I do not expect any, as I noticed that  it was
trimmed down to ~4-5' for winterizing. BUT, who knows,  some of
last year's wood might have been spared(?).

So far this specimen as been initially ID'd as:
Sal's (C),  Schar Italian and (really an unkown) Brooklyn Dark;
and now, as your own find...

But I still wonder about the true ID of this fig?!


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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
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Reply with quote  #21 
I have found a similar unknown fig in Harrison Twp South Jersey zone 7. The fig I ate this morning was dripping honey from the eye. here are some pictures of the progress.I would rate the taste at a 4 little sweet but this is a small tree that is 1.5 years old. first fruit so it is unfair to the tree at this point. There was very little seed almost no crunch at all. Very similar to above cultivars but again unknown only identified as a red italian fig.

Attached Images
jpeg italian_red_fig.JPG (984.51 KB, 37 views)
jpeg italian_red_fig_(5).JPG (243.20 KB, 37 views)
jpeg italian_red_fig_(6).JPG (1020.73 KB, 54 views)
jpeg italian_red_fig_(7).JPG (775.64 KB, 51 views)
jpeg 011.JPG (834.30 KB, 39 views)
jpeg 010.JPG (894.61 KB, 30 views)
jpeg 009.JPG (642.36 KB, 31 views)
jpeg 008.JPG (938.83 KB, 28 views)


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Al Richer
zone 7 nj
EBAY ID--06picl
member: back yard fruit growers association

gorgi

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Reply with quote  #22 
Hi Al,

Welcome to this mistery fig!
Thanks for the additional info.
It sure looks like the one I/Bass already have.

BTW, the  name "Red Italian" is already taken,
and it is of them "Brunswick" type figs.


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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
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Reply with quote  #23 
Thanks for the info did not realize the name was already taken sorry.  I will change the name Probably just start a number system.

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Al Richer
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gorgi

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Reply with quote  #24 
How about a (fancy/funny)  " (x) Golf Ball" (on-an-upside-down-tee [stem]) for a name?!
I am still looking for a pic of the "Schar Italian" fig fruit
(it could be SO), of which last year, I did aquired some cuttings... 




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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
Herman2

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Reply with quote  #25 
George the fig this guy call red italian,is not red italian,but Sicilian Red.
The leafes are Identical to Sicilian Black mfrom JR,I compared them closelly,and I arived t this conclusion.
Sal Corleone is very Similar in Fruits but have a diferent leaf.
Sicilian red and Sicilian Blk,has more of athree lob leaf,while Sal C has Positivelly 5 lobes. 
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #26 
Here are some more pictures of my over/under ripe fruit of unknown GM#17.
I forgot to include a coin for reference; that yellow paper measures 1.5x2".


Attached Images
jpeg DSC02268.JPG (133.45 KB, 135 views)
jpeg DSC02278.JPG (151.33 KB, 121 views)


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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.

Herman2

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Reply with quote  #27 
I am not going to name anything just to say that this fig is too dark to be Sal Corleone as I said in this post very above,at the begining.
Yet it is very similar in shape interior color,size etc.
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #28 
Thanks Herman,
We already knew that it is not a Sal(C).

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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #29 
There is currently an ebay some  fig (MD_BT) cuttings selling that look somewhat very, very similar.
Often, one get some exotic fig and it later turning into a BT.
In this case, I think that it is quite the opposite!
Check it out. What is your opinion?
Yes, for better or worse, I did buyt some...

[Edit: A word of caution! I just got my cuttings.
They are the right size; however, they have broke dormancy and I see signs
of mold on them - a fig rooting challenge, less one some misting system...]


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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
satellitehead

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Reply with quote  #30 

Fruit is very pyramid-shaped on that tree, reminds me of the shape of Grantham Royal.  My BT is nothing like that.  It does have the leaf shape of my BT, and the fruit color, also.  Has that huge eye that sometimes my Monrovia BT gets. 


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Jason
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gorgi

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Reply with quote  #31 
satellitehead,

Looking at the F4F fig-data-base desc. of Grantham Royal (I do not have that),
I see it as quoted to be similar to the Royal Vineyard (Drap D'Or).
I have a Royal Vineyard (SSE-LA MC R 06),
and the fruit it produced does not seem to be the same 
as fig pics shown in this thread (RV: smaller fruit  with a more brownish skin).

As far as Monrovia BT goes, I know nothing about that.
All I have from them is a Black Jack fig (traded).
They usually have good (expensive) plants.

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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
satellitehead

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Reply with quote  #32 
All I mean to say is that the shape of that fig looks similar to #F and #K in the fruit shapes here:

http://www.raysfiginfo.com/id-figs.html

It has a "squat" look to it.  It looks pyramid shaped, like a Hershey Kisses chocolate candy.  This is unusual if I consider my Monrovia BT as a BT sample.

My BT also does not have "ribs" on the fruit, as the one pictured at the auction does.

My BT does have the white flecks on the fruit as you see here.

Of course the color of Royal Vineyard does not match, but the fruit shape (not the size) and ribs seem to match.

If you want to see some pictures to compare, here are ...

Some pictures of my young BT fruit and tree: 
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=41210236&postcount=18

Some pictures of the different dominant leaves of my BT:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=41210339&postcount=20

Finally, here are some pictures of ripe fruit:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4767918

And here is a picture of very ripe fruit with that very large BT eye ;) 
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=41371106&postcount=8

I hope somehow this helps, and you understand I'm just providing some real-world BT samples.

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Jason
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Reply with quote  #33 
Hi Gorgi,

It's Scott that sold you the Md. BT fig cuttings on ebay. I saw your critique on the cuttings and I do apologize, I didn't know any better. I did have one bag of cuttings that was sealed to tight, but I thought the fine gray mold was benign. If you don't have any luck with them, I will of course, replace them for free.

A friend of mine who raised champion leghorns gave me the cutting. He got it from a farmer. Probably about 1985. I got it in '92.  He used to just remove the bottom leaves and jam the stick in the dirt without any ceremony. I didn't know dormancy was important.

I often get ripe fruit in early August. I'll slice one and post a pic when the time comes.

I have plenty of cuttings. Now I will know how to pick the best ones. Thanks for turning me on to this site.



Scott   



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Reply with quote  #34 
Grantham's Royal is a huge fig. Last season was the 1st time my tree gave 2 ripe figs. Colour looks like Dauphine -- some dark greenish with dominant purplish dark colour. It was about 2 days to perfect ripeness when I have to be away from home. Would take pic's this year. Jrice would likely be the best person to give some feedback on this variant.
gorgi

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Reply with quote  #35 
Hi Scott,
Welcome to this fig forum.

I cleaned the cuttings using 10% bleach (1 part bleach, 9 parts water) and
cup-potted them in a perlite enriched potting soil. Currently, I am using
1 part perlite mixed with 3-4 parts potting soil (less perlite than before).
I put the cups in a tall translucent container with a vented top.

I got plenty of twigs, and I am sure that at least one of them will make it.
That is all I need, thanks... 

As I have said before,
baseball: 3 strikes and you are out
v.s.,
figs: one strike and you are in....

This fig shape reminds me more of a golf ball (fruit) sitting on an inverted (upside down)  tee (stem)...

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George; Zone 7a, New Jersey USA.
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Reply with quote  #36 
Hi Gorgi,

I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya. Sounds like a good mix. No rooting hormone for you?

Yeah, I threw ih some extras to try to make up for the fact that I don't know what I'm doing. That gray powder was on some of the old fat gnarly sticks before I cut them. I've seen it before and it always seemed harmless.

This was my first attempt at selling cuttings. I was actually mortified at my mistakes, when I read your critique. And I appreciate it very much, as I want to do it right.

When is the best time to take cuttings? ... and the best way to store them? ... any other advice on how to prepare them properly for sale?

I've been a long time member of gardenweb, and have researched the site. Lots of different opinions and experiences. Obviously, this is a much more focused forum, so I would love to hear the consensus here.


***********

Jon, I got your email. Thank you so much for the warm welcome.

Scott
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Reply with quote  #37 
You can take cuttings any time as long as they are 'hardened' (not soft, flexible, new green growth), but you may choose to take them during growing months or dormant months depending on your situation.

If they will be rooted immediately, like within 48 hours of being taken off the tree, I would take them in the 'non-dormant' months where leaves are actively present.  You should remove the leaves, of course.  There is some anecdotal evidence that "juicy" cuttings (i.e. non-dormant ones) seem to root more happily and vigorously than dormant ones.  As a word of caution, I would let the sap harden on the cutting ends before sending them off.  This should only take a couple of hours and apparently helps to callous/seal the cutting ends.

Alternately, if you have no idea when a  person will get time to root them, or if you want to take them and refrigerate for shipping later, it is better to take them while the tree is dormant in winter, after all leaves have fallen.  I personally like to take cuttings in early to mid January, after they've had about 3-4 weeks of near-freezing temps, just for good measure (ensure dormancy, etc.).  From year to year, I usually find one or two local unknowns that look promising or very unique and offer up to the active members here at the forum for free, and it is easiest for me to take them in the winter months - no need to rush shipping, and they can go direct from the box to a rooting bin or into the fridge until spring.

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Jason
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Reply with quote  #38 
Satelitehead,

Good info. How do you feel about the lengths of cuttings?
I"ve been advertising 6-8 inch, but have been giving up to 10 inch cuttings because I am unsure of what I"m doing, and want to make sure everyone gets taken care of.

Thanks, Scott
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Reply with quote  #39 
Personally, I think 7"-8" is ideal.  It gives a person the option to do whatever they will.  10" is larger enough that you can make two cuttings, so you are essentially providing twice the potential stock to folks.

Anything in the 10"-12" range is actually harder to root, in my opinion, I've tried while experimenting, and anything over 8" is overkill, destined for failure.  Anything shorter than 6" and you're depleting the amount of internal reserves the stick has to produce the roots required to uptake nutrients and feed an actual sapling.

This is my experience.  Others may also share theirs.

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Jason
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Reply with quote  #40 
To me a pencil is the perfect instrument to follow. The length is a good barometer. But I find too thin takes longer to get roots. A magic marker thickness has rooted the best for me. Even the length is good too. So for me I have the  best success with the length of a pencil and the thickness of a marker.

But the pros can get a rock to root.

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satellitehead

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Reply with quote  #41 

I tried rooting rocks last season, 0% success - nothing but bad results for me.  ;)


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Reply with quote  #42 
Hi again all,

I have fruit pics finally as promised.

Scott

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jpeg MVC-011S.JPG (110.27 KB, 49 views)
jpeg MVC-006S.JPG (64.84 KB, 44 views)

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