Register  |   | 
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
Pattee

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,414
Reply with quote  #1 
So I have a small tree that started out as Calabria , then was renamed to Chiapetta . Whatever it is called by the finder is great . 

A few days ago I saw one on ebay listed under a different name - Cosenza ? Now I'm not saying that I don't get confused easily , but this is asking for confusion - from me anyway !

Did the name change again and I missed it ?  I just like to keep my records straight , is all.     :)))

__________________
7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄

Seeking :  Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple,  Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud)


"We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?"
-  Gandhi
MichaelTucson

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,217
Reply with quote  #2 
Pattee, I'd recommend that we all adopt a convention here of putting the word UNKNOWN in this fig variety, until we see if it matches something else.  I think this fig should be referred to as Chiappetta Unknown (or maybe "Unknown Chiappetta"), and I'll explain why below.

Here's the story I have from Art (kubota1), and if he sees this thread he can update any facts I might have left out or mixed up.  This is a fig that he (Art, kubota1) found from a family near Pittsburgh, who had brought it from a "township" (of Cosenza) in the Calabria region of Italy.  It was (according to Art) brought from that farm in Cosenza to the Pittsburgh area back in 1905.  So for a time Art called it Unknown Calabria-1905.  He later spoke with the tree owner and found out the specific farm that it came from -- the Chiappetta family.  Their farm is in a place called San Vincenzo La Costa ("St. Vincent on the coast"), which is in Cosenza, Calabria, Italy.  You can visit their web site and see their address, and actually you can see fig trees in their photos of their farm.  They produce and sell olive oil, and their web site is http://www.chiappettaoliveoil.com/

So about naming:  when there's an unknown, we should all agree to keep the word "Unknown" in its name, until there's been a chance to identify whether it matches some of the already-well-named cultivars.  Some of the experts on here, who spend a great deal of effort knowing about lots of fig cultivars, have sometimes been able to recognize that a "new" variety really is new because they know of its provenance and/or parentage and breeding.  So they can sometimes skip to a "new name" with confidence.  But when there is a "found" variety like this, we should use "Unknown" somewhere in its name.  But to identify which unknown it is, a good descriptive part of the name should identify the source.  Art "found" it (as far as this community is concerned at least), and he chose the name "Chiappetta" once he had researched far enough to know that it came from the Chiappetta family farm.  Hence the name Chiappetta Unknown.

I hope this helps.

Mike   central NY state, zone 5a

__________________
Pauca sed matura.
MichaelTucson

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,217
Reply with quote  #3 
p.s.  After a year or two, when people have photos of the ripe fruit and leaves, maybe it'll be identified as matching another variety.  (At that time we'd want to call it by that known variety name).  Or maybe it won't be matched up to anything else, and so at some point the word "Unknown" could be dropped from its moniker.  But for some time, I think it matters that we all recognize the value of using the word "Unknown" in these "finds".  Otherwise, we contribute to this huge naming problem.  We all decry the fact that fig variety names are a mess and widely ignored (how many nurseries sell "Brown Turkey figs" without putting any effort at all into recognizing that the tree they're selling isn't a Brown Turkey?  Or worse yet, even when the know it is something else, they still sell it by that name... Mannaggia!, as Maggie has said).  So my point is that we, in this f4f community, can and ought to do better!  We can accept that a "found" fig is really Unknown until there's been a reasonable chance to see what it matches up to.  If we instead just make up our own name for it, then we are no better at sorting out the mess of fig names than those unscrupulous sellers... in fact we'd be contributing to the problem (making it worse).  We can and should do better.  Still, we need some way to distinguish one unknown from another unknown.  Hence Chiappetta Unknown.
__________________
Pauca sed matura.
newnandawg

Registered:
Posts: 2,532
Reply with quote  #4 
Mike, great explanation and idea ok keeping "unknown" in its name. I have one myself from an "old" house in Atlanta. Its been tagged "unknown Scotts Find ATL".

Scotts for my nephew who found it and ATL for Atlanta.
SoniSoni

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 776
Reply with quote  #5 
That sounds like a good idea and simple enough.  I agree that a tentative IDs are better than adding more synonyms to a variety.   What is the source of cuttings for the Chiapetta Unknown fig?   I'd like to grow it.

 "chi-chi-chi-Chia"  Soni


__________________
Soni   GA. 7-8.  
 seeking Galicia Negra, Bianchi Guido, Violette de Sollies, Emerald Strawberry
Italiangirl74

Registered:
Posts: 625
Reply with quote  #6 
This is only my OPINION on this matter it is completely up the the person who introduced "Chiappetta" figs what he wants to do with the name,, but I look at it this way. It should never loose chiapetta/chiappetta name. If it is still found to be a common figs, such as "Hardy Chicago" for instance, it should never loose the name of chiapetta. You can say HardyChicago/Chiapetta something to that effect because If you just call HC, then the connection this fig has with a family, Cosenza and Calabria will be lost with this line, because it has an Identity and a home with the family farm it came from already,,, which is not the same history as Its (Look alike HC), the province and Region it came from where as a Hardy Chicago more common does not share that same history. The famly who had this fig and where it was brought from in Old country should always be a part of this figs history even if it is something that turns to be a common variety in the trade with a name attached. Hardy Chicago was called something in Italy, but it certainly wasn't Hardy Chicago.... I hope I am understood. I have brought my Grandfathers One of them to U.S. recently, It was on our farm in old country. We didn't have a name, so in ITalian to differntiate, I called casa and the family name,, if it turn out to be same as Marseilles, I will never call it that because it came from Abruzze, not Marseilles, If I find it is the same for instance, Marseilles will be synonym next to my Family farm name it came from. To remove the chiappetta name I think would be a diservice to the history and family who brought that particular branch to America..... Sorry if I don't spell their name correctly, I am not familiar with this surname. It remind me of when many Italian immigrants came to America, the Americans couldn't pronounce thier name so they chopped it up and gave them a new name,, this is terrible for when you are trying to find your family or family Identity! ciao 
__________________
Maggie Maria zone 7
Pattee

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,414
Reply with quote  #7 
Maggie , I totally agree with you , the family name should be kept with it , even if it is found to be an already named variety plus the importance to that family history .

Mike  , very detailed and I appreciate it greatly. I am in total agreement and it should be part of our mission not only to grow , but be responsible in naming so called new or UNK varieties . Keeping it's origins and 1 name + UNK is wise and should be a matter of form . Otherwise , you add to the name confusion and also do a "diservice" to the family history as Maggie stated.

__________________
7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄

Seeking :  Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple,  Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud)


"We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?"
-  Gandhi
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,851
Reply with quote  #8 
All well and good but we have to be able to fit the name on labels and sort them via computer.  The "unknown" part of the name should never be first.  The name of the fig should stand alone as unique even without the "unknown".  It shouldn't be italian green unknown.  We'll have dozens of those.  Naming it after a town, family, street, region, etc is a great way to do it.  Adding a color if the family has several is also great.  In my records I'm not keeping the "unknown"  If we communicate about it we can change the name over time.  I do keep the identity of the person who sent it to me and the ultimate source if known.  (At least now I do  :- )  That way I can keep up with that specifig.  (Yes, I made up a new word for fig cultivar)
__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Martineca Rimada, Galicia Negra, Fioroni Ruvo, De La Reina - Pons, Tauro, BFF, Sefrawi, Sbayi, Mavra Sika , Fillaciano Bianco, Corynth, Souadi, Acciano Purple, LSU Tiger, LSU Red, Cajun Gold, BB-10 any great tasting fig
Pattee

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,414
Reply with quote  #9 
LOL specifig - love it !!!
__________________
7a & 9b ►I assume all my figs carry FMV ◄

Seeking :  Italian 376,395 , Galicia Negra, Negretta,UNK Pastilliere ,Pananas Purple,  Malta Blk+purple/red, Italian + Calabrian UNK's , Catanzaro, Malone, Sucrette(Baud)


"We may have our private opinions but why should they be a bar to the meeting of hearts?"
-  Gandhi
Italiangirl74

Registered:
Posts: 625
Reply with quote  #10 
Lol specifig, you invented a very useful word! I laugh Pattee because this remind me of growing up,,, It when it came to dating it wasn't good enough that the boy was Italian,,,, father would ask him "What kind, who is your family,what town, what province??"  if he was not us, then my father would show him the door. Being specific and regional is still a very Italian thing and It has not gone away much in Italy (our area) not as bad though in U.S. anymore!! 
__________________
Maggie Maria zone 7
kubota1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,373
Reply with quote  #11 

Ok, my turn. I don't mind putting "unknown" before Chiappetta. I'm not trying to come up with a new fig. The person I got this fig from has the last name of Chiappetta and he told me to look up Chiappetta olive oil. He gave me the whole story of the dates and places it lived. It also matches up with the Chiappetta olive oil.
I have yet to match a real name to it. I can't find a fig or leaf pattern that matches. The breba is reddish and the main crop is dark and almost black when fully ripe. The picture that I showed from last year, was from October 2nd. It wasn't as dark as the fig that I ate in September. It has a berry/melon taste. Like I said last year, It is my best tasting fig so far.
Last year it almost started from ground due the harsh winter. It wasn't protected. So the figs ripened late in the season.
So as far as the name, If someone can ID it properly. Then we should give it the real name.
I am lucky enough to live near an Italian community and have found some great figs with great history. I name all of my figs by the owner's name or the town/street.
I'm not trying to step on any toes. If I was really trying to get some credit from this fig, I'd have put my initials on it.


__________________
Art- Western Pa. 6a
musillid

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,513
Reply with quote  #12 
Maggie is right on the cultural aspect. I still here people say, "oh, your a 'good' Italian". I still don't get that.

The ch in Chiappetta, for the uninitiated, should mean a K, even if followed by an I and so the name should be pronounced ki-a-pet-a.

Cosenza is a region of Italy well known for fig production. I would guess they have several varieties in commercial production still.

__________________
Dale
non compost mentis in Zone 6a
musillid

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,513
Reply with quote  #13 
Somewhere in my family, they all changed the spelling to Musille. No one else knew how to pronounce it. My brothers and I changed it back to Musilli and voila! I think spellings got changed  at Ellis Island by well-intentioned immigration officials who didn't know Italian, or immigrants who had no schooling, or later  in attempts to assimilate. Yep, Ischia threw me, too, until I realized it was an island off the coast of Italy. Should be Is-ki-a or Is-ki-a. Someone more Italian than I would know.

I agree with everyone here, to label things so we have some sense of where they came. I just want the labeling to remain consistent, so I don't go nuts wondering if White Ischia is the same as Ischia White, et cetera.

__________________
Dale
non compost mentis in Zone 6a
kubota1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,373
Reply with quote  #14 
Check out post #56 and 57 from this link.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Free-cuttings-6023167

__________________
Art- Western Pa. 6a
rcantor

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 5,851
Reply with quote  #15 
Art, you have been great with this.  I don't think anyone can complain about your behavior.  But please, put the "Unknown at the end.  I know I will.  I don't want to sort alphabetically and have 50 "unknowns" in a row.  The information is a lot more useful if Chiappetta is what's alphabetized.

__________________
Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Martineca Rimada, Galicia Negra, Fioroni Ruvo, De La Reina - Pons, Tauro, BFF, Sefrawi, Sbayi, Mavra Sika , Fillaciano Bianco, Corynth, Souadi, Acciano Purple, LSU Tiger, LSU Red, Cajun Gold, BB-10 any great tasting fig
Italiangirl74

Registered:
Posts: 625
Reply with quote  #16 
See Vivian, You are learning the Italian language (Dale is very good )  I am like you, I didn't know what someone was saying when they said Eye-she-ah fig, for Ischia,,, I put no connection to the Island off of Napoli, until I saw the spelling and I said it is " EE-skyah" this is how we say, we didn't make the hardness of the last I, some places do!  Eye talian I hear all the time and it makes my hair stand up LOL, but we don't pronounce everyone elses words correctly either, so just ask and I tell how to say it properly!! I think to learn a basic Italian and especially Portuguese and Spanish is very useful in the fig community of figs growers it will help to communicate with the natives better and not get that look as if to say " What the hell you are saying" LOL
__________________
Maggie Maria zone 7
FMD

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,325
Reply with quote  #17 
I used to hate and still hate when someone says Eye-talian. To me it shows contempt and at best ignorance. Might as well use the "W" word if you want to insult me. Fortunately, I haven't heard that nasty bit of bigotry in a long long time.
Sorry to veer off topic so let me steer it back on course.

I was born a few miles from San Vicenzo in the province of Cosenza, so it would be an honor to grow this fig along with my other figs from Calabria. Anyone want to swap cuttings, IM me.

Frank

__________________
Frank
Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b  

 

North Florida Figs
jtp

Registered:
Posts: 978
Reply with quote  #18 
Frank, PM sent.
musillid

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,513
Reply with quote  #19 
 I just used a translator on chiappe. Chiappetta would be a small chiappe. turns out Chiappe is Italian dialect for ass, and I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that is the burro kind. So, Chiappetta means "little burro"  I'd bet my burro on it.
__________________
Dale
non compost mentis in Zone 6a
Otmani007

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 573
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattee
So I have a small tree that started out as Calabria , then was renamed to Chiapetta . Whatever it is called by the finder is great . 

A few days ago I saw one on ebay listed under a different name - Cosenza ? Now I'm not saying that I don't get confused easily , but this is asking for confusion - from me anyway !

Did the name change again and I missed it ?  I just like to keep my records straight , is all.     :)))


Calabria is name of the southern part of Italy (just before you reach Cicily) And Cosenza is one of the biggest cities in Calabria. Cosenza is also a province (same as state in the US).

__________________
Dallas, TX - Zone 8a

Wish List: Col de Dame Blanche, Brogiotto Bianco, Sicilian White, Panache

Otmani
kubota1

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,373
Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by musillid
 I just used a translator on chiappe. Chiappetta would be a small chiappe. turns out Chiappe is Italian dialect for ass, and I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that is the burro kind. So, Chiappetta means "little burro"  I'd bet my burro on it.


Glad it tastes better than a little burro.:)

__________________
Art- Western Pa. 6a
pino

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,466
Reply with quote  #22 
This fig sure looks familiar. 
I wonder if this one and the other similar looking figs all came from the same mother plant? 
If so it would be wonderful to find out that source. 
I guess it could also be that there is many sources of slightly different figs..LOL

__________________

Pino, zone 6, Niagara
Wish List: Brogiotto Bianco, Fico Datto, Fiorone di Ruvo, Fracazzano Multicolore, Fiorone Oro, Popone, Rigato del Salento and other multi colour striped figs

Pino's Figs / Pino's Photos; 2017 Brebas / 2017 Main crop

angelad

Registered:
Posts: 118
Reply with quote  #23 
In researching the Chiappetta unknown fig I came across this thread. 

Just wanted to add that the link to the Chiappetta family is now http://www.chiappettaoliveoil.ca  and not http://www.chiappettaoliveoil.com .  It looks like they sell their olive oil in Southern Ontario. 

I wonder if they know that there is a fig named after their family.

__________________
Angela (Southern Ontario zone 6a
wishlist: I-258, Black Madeira, Florea. Brooklyn White.Kathleen Black, Smith, Improved Celeste
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.