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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #1 
Firstly, I apologize for troubling ascpete.


I tried 'graft cutting'.

The purpose of graft cutting:
In the case of usual 'cutting', rooting and budding take place by the stored energy in the scion. On the other hand, in the case of 'graft cutting', once the combination between the scion and rootstock is formed, rooting and budding take place by the stored energy in the rootstock and scion. When the scion is valuable, short and thin, I thought that 'graft cutting' can raise the success rate than 'cutting'. However, a disadvantage of graf cutting is a mixing of Fig Mosaic Viruses.


Procedure:

1. preparing for scions and rootstocks (1st picture)
Scion:Cucumber, Gino, Narragansett, Pawpaw's Turkey, Seabrook Banana, Smith
Rootstock:Alma, Col de Dame Gris, Longue Daut, Rodos, etc.

1_cutting_rootstock.JPG 

I divided each scion into four pieces.
If we assume a success rate of graft cutting is 30%, then the success rate of this case is (1-0.7^4)*100=76%

2. grafting (2nd-6th pictures, performed on Feb. 2-3)

2_scion.JPG 
3_inserting_1.JPG 
4_inserting_2.JPG 
5_parafilm.JPG 
6_grafted.JPG 

3. brushing indole-3-acetic acid of 0.04% at the bottom part of the rootstocks.

4. planting grafted cuttings (7th-8th pictures, performed on Feb 4)

7_planting_1.JPG 
8_planting_2.JPG 

5. keeping between 60 and 77 degrees fahrenheit.

I want to report the current state of the 'graft cutting' about every 10 days. I hope that all of them will not go south and at least one of them survive.


mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #2 
12 days after planting

All scions are alive now.
(life / total)
1. Cucumber,         4/4
2. Gino,         4/4
3. Narragansett,     4/4
4. Pawpaw's Turkey,     4/4
5. Seabrook Banana,     4/4
6. Smith        4/4

Buds have begun to break through Parafilm.

About 2 or 3 weeks later, scions will start to put forth leaves. If the combination between the scion and rootstock are not completed, the scion dies. What will happen?

post_all_2_16.JPG 
post_Geno_2_16.JPG 
post_Narragansett_2_16.JPG 

ascpete

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Reply with quote  #3 
Mizuyari,
Thanks for the update.
No apologies necessary, Your original post was filled with information, links and pictures and deserved a Topic of its own... as can also be seen from the updated pictures. Thanks again for starting This topic and posting the updates.

If the scion dies, the rootstock should root and continue to grow.
Rewton

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Reply with quote  #4 
Looks like a good start. Do you have any idea on root development? Keep us posted on their progress.  Do you keep the trays in a humid chamber?
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #5 
ascpete

I do not know whether this experiment succeed or not, but I am going to update until a result is given. I wish that I can offer any useful information.

I will greatly appreciate your guidance.
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #6 
Rewton

Nice to meet you.

In this setting, I do not know the state of the root. I hope that rooting starts within one month. One month later, I will dig soil and check the root.

I made a chamber which is covered with vinyl. I have not measure the humidity. But I think humidity is high because dew condensation is generated.

chamber.JPG 

Grasa

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Reply with quote  #7 
Plan on tieing a piece of bamboo or something to support the new growth. I had one like yours that was very beautiful, but as it grew leaves, it became too heavy for the joint to support and it simply broke off when outside. I think it was the wind. your top scions look very good.  it would be helpful if you start thinking how you will secure the top to the bottom without stressing the graft.

You did a fabulous job and I like the way you 'plant' them in the mix,  makes a lot of sense to me. I believe they will survive and will grow nicely.   The joint will need support for a while.

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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #8 
Grasa

Thanks for your advice. In this graft, combination of the scion and rootstock is weak. I will strengthen the weak point when it starts to grow leaves.

The actual situation is a race against time. Before starting putting forth leaves, connection between the scion and rootstock must be completed and rooting must be started. Otherwise, the scion will dry up. Regardless of a result, I will keep posting.

Thank you for understanding the way the grafted tree is planted. Fig scion is usually planted in this way in Japan.
pino

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Reply with quote  #9 
How important is callousing to the success of the graft? 
For example when grafting grapes; the rootstock and scion are grafted and waxed they are then placed sideways in a cool container covered with a sand mixture for a few months for callous formation. 
After that they can be grown in a greenhouse and field planted the following year.

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Wish List: Brogiotto Bianco, Fico Datto, Fiorone di Ruvo, Fracazzano Multicolore, Fiorone Oro, Popone, Rigato del Salento and other multi colour striped figs

Pino's Figs / Pino's Photos; 2017 Brebas / 2017 Main crop

mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #10 
nice to meet you pino

Thank you for important comment. Callous formation is more important than rooting and budding.

In Japan, for graft cutting for grapes, firstly, callous formation are promoted at around 86 degrees fahrenheit for 10 days. Then cool down to around 77 degrees fahrenheit, rooting and budding are promoted.

According ref. (1), researchers perform graft cutting of fig in March and April, and they plant them in a field. Their success rate is more than 80%. Thus I thought that such measures for grapes are not necessary for figs.

If I fail this time, next time I will control moisture, temperature and brightness to prompt callous formation.

(1): http://farc.pref.fukuoka.jp/farc/kenpo/kenpo-32/32-17.pdf
Grasa

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Reply with quote  #11 
please tell us what does this mean?

接ぎ挿し苗 揚げ接ぎ苗 挿し木苗

第3図 苗育成法別イチジク「桝井ドーフィン」苗木

の掘り上げ後の外観

1) 2012年 2月27日撮影

2) 左:接ぎ挿し苗,中:揚げ接ぎ苗,右:挿し木苗


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Grasa
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #12 
Grasa

Translation from Japanese into English is welcome. I am not very good at English and I am not familiar with technical terms of botany, so my sentences are probably strange. If there are incomprehensible sentences, please let me know.


==========
Caption of Fig. 2 (Pictures of 'Toyomituhime')
==========

接ぎ挿し(=graft cutting)苗(=plant)
rooted 'graft cutting'

揚げ接ぎ(=indoor grafting)苗(=plant)
(grafting scion on bare root rootstock and plant them)

挿し木(=cutting)苗(=plant)
rooted 'cutting'


第2図(=Fig. 2) 
苗育成法別イチジク「とよみつひめ」苗木の掘り上げ後の外観
Pictures of plant of 'Toyomitumime' after digging up, according to three different nursing method.

1) 2012年(=year)2月(=month)27日(=day)撮影
Pictured on February 27, 2012

2) 左(=left):接ぎ挿し苗、中(=middle):揚げ接ぎ苗、右(=right):挿し木苗
LEFT: rooted 'graft-cutting', MIDDLE: indoor grafted plant, RIGHT: rooted 'cutting'


(my comment:
They breeded 'とよみつひめ' (= Toyometuhime) as well as 'Kibaru'. They are patented and is not allowed to take outside Fukuoka Prefecture in Japan.

Although there is not fig wasp in Japan, fig breeding has been performed at laboratory in Fukuoka prefecture. Not only capri figs, but also common figs are used as male figs. The following method is patented.

In April, blush or spray gibberellin of 10ppm on breba of common fig.
In July, about 3 stamen per fruit are usually produced in the breba.
Cut stamen out of the fruit, and pollinate it with pistil of main crop of common fig.)



==========
Caption of Fig. 3 (Pictures of 'Masui Dauphine')
==========


第3図(=Fig. 3) 
苗育成法別イチジク「桝井ドーフィン」苗木の掘り上げ後の外観
Pictures of plant of 'Masui Dauphine' after digging up, according to three different nursing method.

1) 2012年(=year)2月(=month)27日(=day)撮影
Pictured on February 27, 2012

2) 左(=left):接ぎ挿し苗、中(=middle):揚げ接ぎ苗、右(=right):挿し木苗
LEFT: rooted 'graft-cutting', MIDDLE: indoor grafted plant, RIGHT: rooted 'cutting'
aphahn

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Reply with quote  #13 
Very interesting. I can't wait to see how they do.
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #14 
aphahn

Nice to meet you.

I hope that they will survive and become trees.

I am also interested in cold hardy figs. In Japan, Bonholm's Diamond, Hardy Chicago and Quinta are cultivated.
Luke

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Reply with quote  #15 
Thank you for taking the time to post all this great info, look foreword to seeing the results.
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Liza

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Reply with quote  #16 
Good morning Mizuyai,

Very interesting reading your post and I hope to read more..........
Please, would you know what the outcome was for the experiment in the original Paper that was published?
Many thanks

Liza

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Growing in the UK and Portugal:
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #17 
Luke

Nice to meet you.

I learned a lot from this forum. I hope I can repay my debt of gratitude to forum members.
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #18 
Liza

Nice to meet you.

I will translate a part of original tables. Please feel free to ask if you have any questions.


====================
table I on the page 77 (performed on 2010. rootstock: Kibaru.  On each column, 20 grafts are performed.)

Toyometuhime     graft-cutting     March 30     100%
                         indoor-grafting  April 2         100%

Houraisi              graft-cutting      March 30    85%
                         indoor-grafting   April 2        80%

first row: cultivar of scion
second row: method
third row: performed date
fourth row: success rate
====================


====================
table II on the page 78 (performed on 2011. rootstock: Kibaru.  On each column, 20 grafts or cuttings are performed.)

Toyometuhime    graft-cutting      April 8     100%
                        indoor-grafting   April 8     100%
                        cutting              April 8     100%

Masui Dauphine   graft-cutting      April 8     100%
                         indoor-grafting   April 8     100%
                         cutting              April 8     90%

first row: cultivar of scion
second row: method
third row: performed date
fourth row: success rate
====================

on the variety name:
キバル(=Kibaru): rootstock with resistance to some kind of diseases
とよめつひめ(= Toyometuhime): their developed cultivar
蓬莱柿(=houraisi): imported probably from China in 16th century. Fruit weight is about 100 grams. Brix approaches from 15% in summer to 30% in the late fall.
桝井ドーフィン(=Masui Dauphine): most popular cultivar in Japan
Grasa

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Reply with quote  #19 
Fascinating information. Thank you  for sharing. I tried using google translation and it showed "when the fried scion"...so I knew it was off! I was confused as to the pictures of the bare rooted plants. Now I see, it was for the experiment so it could be evaluated.  They must have special chambers with controlled temperature as well.

Have you had personal contact with someone doing this? or visited a place?  We all would love to know more about this amazing methods of growing figs. Perhaps one of these are near your city, and you can share more with us about this.

http://www.hawaiifruit.net/Figs-Japan.htm

specifically here:

Examples can be seen at the following links.

http://www.hawaiifruit.net/togofig/index.html

http://www.hawaiifruit.net/hamafig/index.html

http://www.hawaiifruit.net/figstation/index.html

http://www.hawaiifruit.net/aifarm/aifigfarm.html

 


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Grasa
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #20 
Grasa

I should have translated the important parts of the paper. As shown in 第一図(=Figure 1) on the page 77,  the length of the rootstock is about 20-25 cm, and all buds (in this case, 3 buds) are cut off. In my case, some buds were cut off, and the others were not. On the other hand, the length of the scion is about 5 cm with one-node. In my case, most of scions were shorter than 5 cm.

'揚げ' means 'rising (or lifting) something from low position to high position' as well as 'frying'. I think more than 99% Japanese regard '揚げ' as 'frying'. Thus '揚げ接ぎ' is very strange Japanese. Since '接ぎ' means 'grafting', '揚げ接ぎ' means 'after digging up rootstock, grafting scion on the rootstock'.

I have no personal contact with the researchers, and have not visited their laboratory. I am not researcher but wannabe farmer. However, they present their research results on this page, so we can learn from there (Sorry, Japanese only)
http://farc.pref.fukuoka.jp/farc/seika/seika07/sei-mo07.htm
They are studying Figs, Kiwi fruits, Grapes, Oranges, Persimmons and Pears. Last year, I asked them whether I could purchase 'Kibaru'. They turned down my request on the ground of law. They are studying fruits for farmers in Fukuoka Prefecture ( I live in Oita Prefecture. )

Thank you for informing me the sites. Step over style is very popular in Japan and efficient. And Aichi Prefecture is Japan's top producer of fresh figs and the head office of Toyota (automaker) is in Aichi.

Interesting variation of step over style is as follows (Sorry, Japanese only)
http://www.pref.aichi.jp/nogyo-keiei/nogyo-aichi/gijutu_keiei/kaju1303.pdf

Best Regards
mizuyari
Ekierk

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Reply with quote  #21 
Very Informative topic.  Thank you for posting this. I may try something similar
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #22 
Ekierk

Nice to meet you.

I wish you a success. If I fail, please use our data as negative example.
milehighgirl

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Reply with quote  #23 
mizuyari, Your work is very neat. I have a question regarding rooting of the rootstock. Would success rates be better if the rootstocks were rooted prior to grafting?
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Looking for: Becane, Dalmatie, Doree, Florea, Hanc's EBT, Italian 258, LaRadek's EBT, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles White , Negronne, Nordland, Sal's EL, Strawberry Vert, ...anything cold hardy and short season. (Willing to pay for cuttings)
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #24 
milehighgirl

Nice to meet you.

>Would success rates be better if the rootstocks were rooted prior to grafting?

Yes, it would be. If the rootstocks were already rooted, the success rates would seem to become almost 100%. References are as follows. In my case, I am experimenting on whether graft-cutting goes well. If graft-cutting go well, it would reduce a procedure and time to nurse a grafted tree.

Not pregnant but carrying multiples - new grafts
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/not-pregnant-but-carrying-multiples-new-grafts-6300805

Graft and a duckling
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/graft-and-a-duckling-6328917

fig-fig bark graft
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/figfig-bark-graft-6364290

5 cuttings = 10 new starters
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/5-cuttings-10-new-starters-6101724
greenfig

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Reply with quote  #25 
Dear mizuyari,

Two of the links you provided were mine and both grafts are still alive and well!
The fig-fig bark graft is the most interesting to me since both grafts made it. I can take a photo tomorrow as an update. The buds just broke and in a week or two we could see the large O'Rourke leaves. I think the success was partially in a very good and strong rootstock that was rooted fist . It could support the grafts.
The other one, in the duckling post, is still dormant. It has an old leaf but no new ones.

Thank you for your translation and showing us the results of your skills!

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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #26 
Dear greenfig,

Nice to meet you.

I studied a lot from your posts. Thank you.

And thank you for letting we know the current state of grafted fig trees and the reason for success in grafting. I'm looking forward to your photos.

I thought of one thing. I should have sterilized the cuttings with 10% bleach solution, so that various germs do not enter from the cut end.
greenfig

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Reply with quote  #27 
mizuyari,

Here are a few photos of the graft today. It doesn’t look spectacular because the fig just woke up from the dormancy.
But I am happy that is alive and clearly wants to grow!

Attached Images
jpeg 1.JPG (222.27 KB, 119 views)
jpeg 2.JPG (111.14 KB, 132 views)
jpeg 3.JPG (184.70 KB, 125 views)


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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #28 
Hi greenfig,

Thank you for posting photos. Amazingly, buds are already breaking. California seems to be warm. I hope that your fig tree grow well.

In my case also, since some scions were thin, the cuttings seemed to fail. In order to increase a survival rate, graft-cuttings were done. I wish that roots appear from the rootstocks.

Since your success became clear two months after the grafting, my results will become clear at the beginning of April.
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #29 
26 days after planting

All scions are alive now.
(life / total)
1. Cucumber,         4/4
2. Gino,         4/4
3. Narragansett,     4/4
4. Pawpaw's Turkey,     4/4
5. Seabrook Banana,     4/4
6. Smith        4/4

Today I dug soil and checked the root. The following two pictures are before and after digging soil. The root of some cutting has already grown.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/12875803785/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/12875804085/
(Sorry. When I tried to insert photos, the alert 'Sorry, you do not have permission to perform this action', appears.)

The following picture is sprout of Narragansett.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/12875896683/

It seems that the growth of sprout stopped right now. This indicates that the growth was supported by the stored energy of the scion. If the cambium layers of the scion and rootstock are connected, the growth of sprout start again. Else if, the leafs fall.
Ampersand

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Reply with quote  #30 
Very cool and impressive, please keep sharing!
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #31 
Ampersand

Nice to meet you.

If it is successful, I will keep updating until I harvest fruits.
lampo

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Reply with quote  #32 
Mizuyari,

Congratulations.

What a job and super efficiency !

Francisco
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #33 
Hi Francisco,

Thanks. But it's just a milestone, not the end of the journey.
deerhunter16b

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Reply with quote  #34 
Very interesting .....good luck with them
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #35 
Hi deerhunter16b,

Thank you. Nice to meet you.

Your rooting method is also interesting. Physical properties of the plant change according to the rooting environment.
ascpete

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Reply with quote  #36 
Mizuyari,
Thanks for posting the update.
What is your soil mix recipe? It looks like Coconut Coir and Gravel, what are the ratios?
Thanks.
thearabicstudent

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Reply with quote  #37 
Amazing.  I figured that cuttings would be too fragile to graft on right away, but you seem to have the magic touch.  
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #38 
Hi ascpete,

Sorry my reply is late.

Soil mix recipe is (Coconut Coir : Bora soil (ボラ土) =1:1).

The Bora soil is ejectamenta of the Mt. Kirishima (in Japan). The Bora soil is like pumice and cheap (20 liters costs about 1 dollar). The water retentivity of the Bora soil is worse than pearlite. Since the Bora soil is acidulous (ph: 5-6), there are few germs, like sphagnum moss. In order to make soil mix acidic, I added the Bora soil. Thus the ratio of Coconut Coir and Bora soil is arbitrary.

https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=%E3%83%9C%E3%83%A9%E5%9C%9F&client=firefox-a&hs=iIi&rls=org.mozilla:ja:official&hl=ja&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=GBsUU8GlKYnwkAXTk4HYDA&ved=0CC0QsAQ
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #39 
Hi thearabicstudent,

Nice to meet you.

I treated according to the instructions of the paper. Since I am a beginner, it takes about 5 minutes to finish grafting (from cutting to taping). A result will become clear in two months. Please wait a little while more.
ascpete

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Reply with quote  #40 
Mizuyari,
Thanks for the reply.
From the healthy looking roots, it looks as if its working successfully.
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #41 
Hi ascpete,

In Japan, when planting fig scions, we usually use 100% Kanuma soil (鹿沼土). The Kanuma soil is also ejectamenta of the volcanoes, pumice and acidulous. The water retentivity of the Kanuma soil is better than the Bora soil. Since shipping expenses of the Kanuma soil from the Kanuma soil-field are high, I used Bora soil.

Kanuma soil:
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q=Kanuma+soil&client=firefox-a&hs=F4r&rls=org.mozilla:ja:official&hl=ja&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=vq0UU4fDEJCclQXYk4CIDg&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1043&bih=864

The 6th picture of this site is an actual example:
http://blog.zige.jp/pastral/kiji/542268.html

The ratio (Coconut Coir : Bora soil =1:1) is the first attempt for me. If I fail, I think about it a lot, and from there I can make a new start. Your following post is food for thought. Thank you.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/easy-simple-and-practical-tricks-to-increase-potted-fig-cutting-survival-rates-6719728?pid=1281407982#post1281407982
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #42 
41 days after planting

lower left: Cucumber
lower right: Seabrook Banana
upper left: Gino
upper right: Pawpaw's Turkey

http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/13200698633/in/set-72157642452741093

forward: Narragansett
toward: Smith

http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/13200573195/in/set-72157642452741093


Criteria of the success or failure

i) probably success: the green wood is larger than the scion
(interchange of nourishment and water is possible between the sicon and the rootstock)

Seabrook Banana:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/13200895604/in/set-72157642452741093

Gino:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/13200715833/in/set-72157642452741093

ii) live: growth stops, leaves drop
(interchange of water is possible between the scion and the rootstock)

Smith:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/118875434@N04/13200590685/in/set-72157642452741093

iii) failure: scion dies
(combination between the scion and the rootstock ends in failure)


cultivar( success / live / dead )
1. Cucumber           0 / 4 / 0
2. Gino                   3 / 1 / 0
3. Narragansett       0 / 4 / 0
4. Pawpaw's Turkey  2 / 2 / 0
5. Seabrook Banana 1 / 3 / 0
6. Smith                  0 / 4 / 0


In our city, an average lowest and highest air temperature in mid-March is 42.6F (5.9C) and 58.1F (14.5C), respectively. Temperature is low to take out figs from a chamber. I am going to transplant grafted figs in a pots in April.
recomer20

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Reply with quote  #43 
Thank you for a great thread, mizuyari. Wonderful results and documentation. Many of the grafted scions seemed too large to graft successfully to this type of bark (?) graft. Very exciting to see your success.
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Rick C. Birmingham, AL z7b --- *INGROUND: S.C.Lemon ("Dr.Welch"), LSUpurple, Celeste (Std) *POTTED 3rd Yr: Alma, Atreano, BattGreen, GrnGreek, HardyChicago, ItalianBlack (Becnel), LSUGold?, MBvs, Sal's EL, Southern BT?, St.Jean, Jackie'sUnk *POTTED 2nd Yr: SunbirdUnkJP, BourjNoire, JHAdriatic, ValleNegra *ROOTING: RdB, ScottsBlk, BlkGreek-MN,Preto

lampo

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Reply with quote  #44 
Mizuyari,

That is a superb job!
Congratulations.
Your success makes me think that I should try graft cutting on a next opportunity.

Francisco 
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #45 
Nice to meet you recomer20.

You are welcome.

Graft-cutting was performed to check a propagating method when a scion is valuable, short and thin(? in our case, some scions are thick).

We call this grafting method "Kiritugi (切り接ぎ)" in Japanese. It is easy to put cambium layers together by this method. How do you say "Kiritugi" in English? Veneer grafting?

For example,
kiwi:
http://fruitgrowing.blog24.fc2.com/blog-entry-614.html#end
blueberry:
http://fruitgrowing.blog24.fc2.com/blog-entry-617.html#end
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #46 
Hi, Francisco

Thank you.

Because there are success and near failure examples, it seems that it can be possible to increase success rates by checking conditions.

I also carried out other graft cuttings on many cultivars. I will introduce a failure example next time.

Hiroshi
can_smokva

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Reply with quote  #47 
mizuyari-san
hello sir,
very impressive work!
are you concerned when there a minor leaf drop occurs?
what do you think causes a leaf to drop?
I have noticed some young leaf drop off the otherwise well growing shoot.

Damir
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #48 
Damir-san

Nice to meet you. Thank you.

When the grafting goes well, a green wood grows up, and a leaf rarely falls. In this sense, leaf dropping concerns me. When the grafting does not goes well, growth of the green wood stops, and a scion dries up by the transpiration of the leaf. I think that in order to avoid dying, a scion spontaneously drops leafs. Thus leaf dropping indicates that the grafting does not goes well.

Sometimes a green wood continues growing with dropping minor leafs. I think that the scion drops the leaf which does not fit environment. In this case, I do not mind leaf dropping.
can_smokva

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Reply with quote  #49 
mizuyari-san

Thank you for expaining the minor leaf drop.
I share your understanding of it.

Regards

Damir
mizuyari

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Posts: 97
Reply with quote  #50 
Damir-san

In the case of a cutting, leaf dropping is sometimes observed when the scion starts leafing out. At first, leafing occurs as the scion being a part of a tree. But in actuality, the scion is not a part of the tree. It is just a stick. As a consequence, the leaf can not adapt itself to environment. Thus, leaf dropping occurs.

Warm regards,
Hiroshi
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