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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #1 
Has anyone tried this or anything similar?

Grasa had posted a Chinese Grafting video which shows grafting dormant bare root fig rootstock to dormant fig scion and it looked like a relatively easy procedure.

I have rooted several dozen cuttings (unknowns) as root stock and am now ready to start grafting. I would be interested to know if any one has tried anything similar. I will be posting my results in this topic.

Thanks.


  

oldvt

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Reply with quote  #2 
Yes, I grafted on to one year old bare root stock, I used an omega graft, 3 out of 5 grafts are doing well. I bud grafted on to cuttings and then rooted  the cuttings in moss, well the cuttings root the graft heals . Rex.
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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #3 
Rex,
Thanks. I plan on placing the grafted cuttings in my rooting chamber for a week or two, per the video (75 deg F. and 80% Relative Humidity) to help the grafts heal.
Grasa

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Reply with quote  #4 
I am afraid of breaking their roots with manipulation, so what I do, is I put the fat cuttings to root and when they show that initial eye (white dots) I graft the new variety and keep everything in the warm chamber newspaper lined with a little moss so I can see what they are doing without much touching them... they look amazing, pushing roots and graft heals at the same time, I notice that it is even better, if the cutting also pushes a bud, as it works as a nursing branch for the new graft.  I lost a few to gnats and sadly, the roots were eaten but the graft union was well bonded.  So, I have other set of problems.  It has been really bad here for gnats I am working on my garden and they are eating everything I plant... gosh I hate them... Not sure there will be garden this year.
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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #5 
Grafted a few fig cuttings today. Several varieties (named) onto an unknown rootstock. Thanks to Kerry aka drivewayfarmer for all the extra cuttings and Jon V for the spring cuttings. I Have a few dozen more to complete. I am using a wedge graft, because I have been able to get good cambium contact between the rootstock and scion. The scion cuttings are all small caliper and I have not had good succes rooting these in the past.

<edit> the rootstock has been rooting in sphagnum moss for 3 weeks.

Attached Images
jpeg fig_grafts_scions_on_3_week_alcohol_wash_and_20x_diluti...row_rootstock.jpg (227.41 KB, 774 views)

Grasa

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Reply with quote  #6 
Pete, how old are your base cuttings? That seems like a lot of roots hope they grow well.  I found that if the cutting is much smaller, I do the incision and loose the bark just a little and push the new cutting all the way forcing the bark to open a little more, the joint is very tight. Is that how you do? They need that humidity dome even in the cups for a while..
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bigsmile542

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Reply with quote  #7 
Good luck Pete. Looks like they are will on there way to making strong trees. Lost of root make for a strong tree someday. Keep us posted on how they do. 

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South West TX
ascpete

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Reply with quote  #8 
Grasa, ... The rootstock is 3 weeks old, they were described in another topic.

The completed grafts are all wedge grafts. The rootstock is split, the scion is cut into a wedge and inserted into the rootstock, aligning cambium on one side. I have been considering trying a few bark grafts also on the largest cuttings. They will be placed back in the sphagnum moss for at least 1 week to form callus.

bigsmile542, ... Thanks.

Attached Images
jpeg fig_graft_scion_white_and_3_week_rooted_cutting_rootstock_Before.jpg (176.01 KB, 84 views)
jpeg fig_graft_scion_white_and_3_week_rooted_cutting_rootstock_during.jpg (215.27 KB, 87 views)
jpeg fig_graft_scion_white_and_3_week_rooted_cutting_rootstock_after.jpg (229.62 KB, 81 views)

ascpete

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Reply with quote  #9 
Update 5/11/2013...

Progress of cupped grafted cuttings. They have been cupped for approximately 1 week and have been in the "humidity dome" for most of that time. They are now exposed to the room for 6 hours at a time, with misting. All the scion wood buds are either swelling or have newly emerged leaves. The exposed ends have all been sealed with wax.

bigsmile542

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Reply with quote  #10 
Good post Pete. We are all pulling for them to make it.

Zone 8
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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #11 
Update 5/19/2013...

Progress of cupped grafted cuttings. They have been cupped for approximately 2 weeks. They are now exposed to the room full time. All the scion wood buds are either swelling or have newly emerged leaves, except for one (1). The exposed ends have all been resealed with toilet seal wax. The root stock's leaves are being pinched, but the growing tips have not been removed yet. the cutting at the right of the picture is rootstock only.

Note the "lime green" cambium ring is visible at the top of five (5) of the grafted cuttings, indicating a possible connection to the roots (sap flow).
 

rcantor

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Reply with quote  #12 
Great work!
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rcantor

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Reply with quote  #13 
I still wish you'd video your adventures in fig-land and safaris in fig country and sell subscriptions to your pillaging of the surrounding countryside.  :)

If Grasa is the grafting ninja, what are you?  Fig explorer?  Pounce de Fig-on (Ponce de Leon)?

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Martineca Rimada, Galicia Negra, Fioroni Ruvo, De La Reina - Pons, Tauro, BFF, Sefrawi, Sbayi, Mavra Sika , Fillaciano Bianco, Corynth, Souadi, Acciano Purple, LSU Tiger, LSU Red, Cajun Gold, BB-10 any great tasting fig
ascpete

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Reply with quote  #14 
Bob C,
Thanks.
No explanation was needed for the "Ponce de Fig-on" reference. : )
I'm actually camera shy. I'm posting all these pictures because my Cell Phone provider upgraded me to an IPhone for free... and a picture is worth a thousand words...
Subscriptions may be possible, If I'm able to get more free time.
Grasa

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Reply with quote  #15 
those look awesome Pete, I let my root grow a little branch it works as a nursing branch, when I see that the tip took off, I pinch the bottom sprouts. It is exciting to see them growing and you are doing a great job!
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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #16 
Grasa,
Thanks.
I'm pinching the leaves on the rootstock to keep those nursing branches small, but they keep producing more branches, the rootstock on the bottom left has four (4) new branches just from pinching leaves alone. I am trying not to remove the apical tip on the rootstock branches at this time.

The two terminal end scion wood are currently growing and developing the slowest. all others (7) are starting to take off. If those two do not do something within the week they will be decapitated... : )
ascpete

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Reply with quote  #17 
Update; 7-5-2013...

All grafts failed : ( ... The root stocks are alive.
I may have contributed to the failure by not maintaining a high enough humidity around the newly grafted scions. They all dried out.

Will try again next year...
greenfig

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Reply with quote  #18 
Pete,
Mine doing ok so far. I used the parafilm tape and the Walter E. Clark & Son Grafting Wax to seal the joins and the top cuts.
Also, introduction to the outside was delayed, I kept the pots with soil inside for a few weeks until the active growth. 

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SoniSoni

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Reply with quote  #19 
My heart just sank when I saw they failed.  I can't imagine how I'd feel.  CRYYYYYYYYY



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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #20 
greenfig,
Congratulations...Good Luck. My grafts were never moved outside, I should have sealed the entire scion in wax to prevent dessication.

Soni,
You can't win them all. It was an experiment and I gained experience and knowledge which can be applied in future efforts. Thanks for the support.

<edit>
Grasa,
Thanks. I was able to root the larger caliper cuttings of the scions that were used in the test, so no harm done. Congrats on your successes.
Grasa

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Reply with quote  #21 
Pete, that is sad to read.   Out of my many multiples graft to cutting, only one carrying "sucrete, W. Texas and Panachee" all 3 made it so far.  many others only one of the 3 and many dried up totally.   this a tiring experiment.  Frustrating at times.  Hang in there.  the humidity chamber may do the trick.
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Darkman

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Reply with quote  #22 
I'm just wondering how much the sucess rate would rise if you were grafting to cuttings that were at least already rooted and actively growing leaves for a while say at least six months.

Please excuse my ignorance but is one of the reasons you are grafting is the scions you are grafting are hard to root varieties?

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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #23 
Charles,
The success rate might have been higher if I was using rooted plants as the rootstock, but my inexperience at grafting is also a factor.

Yes, that is a reason for grating and the posted topics by other members show a faster growth rate of the scion, but in my case it was also a simple experiment to see if it would work. It was also a means of practicing grafting, without possibly spreading disease (FMD) to my existing healthy plants (rootstock).
Darkman

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Reply with quote  #24 
Thanks Pete,

I have quite a few low, touching the ground, Celeste branches that I know will self root if I just cover them with soil. I was contemplating doing that and then, after separation and potting for a bit, grafting onto them.

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Rewton

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Reply with quote  #25 
Pete, I found this old thread when I was searching around for information about grafting.  I am looking to do something similar to what you did (i.e. graft a scion cutting onto another cutting to serve as rootstock) although I might take Grasa's advice and do the graft when root initials are apparent but before actual roots pop out.  Do you have any ideas on what you might try differently next time?  I was thinking that the grafts might be more likely to take if the entire scion (and graft union) were wrapped in parafilm to keep it from drying out.
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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #26 
Rewton,
I would graft to established rootstock, either year old plants or cuttings in 1 gallon planters (several months old). Yes, I would also protect the scion from dessication, because that seemed to be the main cause of failure since the grafts and scion were exposed to the room's low RH.
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Reply with quote  #27 
I have one extra Florea cutting that I would like to use as rootstock for a scion cutting.  I have backup rooted cuttings going for both so if it doesn't take I'll take your advice and try again in a year.  Now to practice my grafting technique using trimmings from my neighbor's Brown Turkey.  Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky. 
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #28 
May I join this thread? This is 'mizuyari'. Please to meet you.

I tried 'graft cutting'. Success rate of 'graft cutting' for researchers (refs. 1-2) and farmers (refs. 3-4)  is more than 80% and below 30%, respectively. What are the chances that  amateur will do well?

Procedure:

1. preparing for scions and rootstocks (1st picture)
Scion:Cucumber, Gino, Narragansett, Pawpaw's Turkey, Seabrook Banana, Smith
Rootstock:Alma, Col de Dame Gris, Longue Daut, Rodos, etc.

1_cutting_rootstock.JPG 

2. grafting (2nd-6th pictures, performed on Feb. 2-3)

2_scion.JPG 
3_inserting_1.JPG 
4_inserting_2.JPG 
5_parafilm.JPG 
6_grafted.JPG 

3. brushing indole-3-acetic acid of 0.04% at the bottom part of the rootstocks.

4. planting grafted cuttings (7th-8th pictures, performed on Feb 4)

7_planting_1.JPG 
8_planting_2.JPG 

5. keeping between 60 and 77 degrees fahrenheit.

I want to report the current state of the 'graft cutting' about every 10 days. I hope that all of them will not go south and at least one of them survive.

references: (I'm sorry for we have only Japanese web resources. The photographs may serve as a reference.)
(1) http://www.pref.okayama.jp/norin/nousou/noushi/seikaPDF/H18/18kaju-8.pdf
(2) http://farc.pref.fukuoka.jp/farc/kenpo/kenpo-32/32-17.pdf
(3) http://blog.zige.jp/pastral/kiji/426258.html
(4) http://redmountainfarm.blog63.fc2.com/blog-entry-497.html

blueberry

ascpete

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Reply with quote  #29 
Mizuyari,
Welcome, Thanks for posting your grafting procedures and information to this topic.

You should start a new Topic for this information and to document your progress.

With the low success rates for farmers, Why don't they try to graft to root stocks that are already growing?

I read some of the linked information and the reasons for grafting seem to be to use the Roostock's ability to grow in poor soil conditions. Is this the reason for your grafts?

Thanks again for all the information and pictures.
Grasa

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Reply with quote  #30 
These are awesome pictures.  I agree with Pete, please start a new topic and do update us with your progress. I wish I could read  that foreign language.
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Grasa
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mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #31 
Hello, Pete

>You should start a new Topic for this information and to document your progress.

I am sorry. Since I am not good at English, if I start a new Topic, I thought that I can not respond properly. If I can join this thread, I thought that my poor English can be understood from the context of this thread, and I could offer information.

>With the low success rates for farmers, Why don't they try to graft to root stocks that are already growing?

Exactly.

It usually takes two years to grow a grafted plant. But farmers tried it to shorten that period.


>I read some of the linked information and the reasons for grafting seem to be to use the Roostock's ability to grow in poor soil conditions.

For farmers, it is as you say.


>Is this the reason for your grafts?

In my case, I tried graft cutting to raise the success rate of the breeding.

In the case of usual cutting, rooting and budding take place by the stored energy in the scion. On the other hand, in the case of graft cutting, once the union between the scion and the rootstock is formed, rooting and budding take place by the stored energy in the rootstock and scion.

When the scion is valuable, short and thin, I thought that graft cutting can raise the success rate than cutting. This is the reason for my grafts.
mizuyari

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Reply with quote  #32 
Hello, Grasa

Your various grafts inspired me. I will tray to start a new thread.
rcantor

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Reply with quote  #33 
Either way, Mizuyari, Welcome to the forum!
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ascpete

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Reply with quote  #34 
Hello mizuyari,
Your English is fine. Thanks for the reply to my questions.

Since you are grafting to increase the success rate for the valuable scion, you could grow the rootstock before hand to have active or dormant plants as rootstock.
Ampersand

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Reply with quote  #35 
Pete,

Just skimming over the topic, perhaps the reason your grafts failed was not using a grafting tape or wax? Maybe I'm not seeing everything, but it looks like the grafts are only wrapped in green plant tie. Parafilm or some other grafting tape might help substantially with the grafts drying before the can heal.
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Reply with quote  #36 
Amdersand, that was my thought too (see post #25).  I'm going to give this a try (with parafilm as shown by Mizuyari) once the rootstock is just beginning to push out roots.  One challenge will be avoiding damaging the roots while I am making the cuts for the graft.  Maybe using a vise to immoblize the cutting?
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potatochips101

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Reply with quote  #37 
Grasa, look into neem cake I read somewhere online that they use it as a soil.drench in India both for fertilizing and for defeating pests in the soil.
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Please PM me if you have any of the above rooted cuttings or trees for sale or trade.
I am new to collecting so I don't have much to trade as yet.

Currently growing in containers:
Brown Turkey, Atreano,Alma Violetta, English Brown Turkey, Celeste, JH Adriatic, LSU Purple, LSU Tiger, Banana, Early Violette, Stanford, Green Ischia, Violette Du Bordeaux, Mary Lane, Petite Negra, Hollier, Alma, Chicago Hardy, Sals Corleone, Black Madiera, Smith, Desert King, Negronne, St. Rita, Atreano Gold,
ascpete

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Reply with quote  #38 
Ampersand,
 As stated in post #17
Quote:
ascpete,
Update; 7-5-2013...
All grafts failed : ( ... The root stocks are alive.
I may have contributed to the failure by not maintaining a high enough humidity around the newly grafted scions. They all dried out.

The ends of the scion were sealed with toilet seal wax or melted tea candle wax, the bark was exposed to the low humidity environment, but there wouldn't have been much dessication at the plastic ties.
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