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lampo

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Reply with quote  #1 
A San Pedro breba also known by the name of Carvalhal.
This particular tree is not irrigated . The large to very large fruit is much flavored, sweet and goes very well with 'presunto'.
It is by far the most popular breba in Portugal

Francisco

P1050510.JPG 


P1050511.JPG  P1050516.JPG  P1050517.JPG  P1050519.JPG 

Francisco

james

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Reply with quote  #2 
I wonder if i sell all of my trees on eBay, if I can raise enough money to buy the house next door to Francisco.
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Reply with quote  #3 
Not going to happen, James.
I bought all the land around him. Want to buy some land?


Francisco,
You mentioned "Lampeira Preta. Does this mean there is a L. Bianca? Or L. something else?

Thanks
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Reply with quote  #4 
I'll time share a room.
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In containers - Littleton, CO (zone 5b)
In ground - N.E of Austin, TX (zone 8b) 

2016 Wish List:  Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr, Viōlette Dāuphine.  Iranian figs are always welcome.

Gina

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by james
I wonder if i sell all of my trees on eBay, if I can raise enough money to buy the house next door to Francisco.


What about a drone with a picking attachment?  :)


Lovely pictures.

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HarveyC

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Reply with quote  #6 
Rafed, I believe that the Lampiera that many of us have had for some time such as which is growing at Prusch Park in San Jose is Lampeira Branca.  Some have written in the past that what is at Prusch (and Wolfskill?) can't really be the real thing since it's not a San Pedro type but I believe the mistake is that it is simply just called Lampeira.

Here is a thread where both varieties is listed http://www.figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6347328

Here is where Francisco addressed my question once on Lampeira Branca http://www.figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1281840876&postcount=44

Here is where I posted a photo of the Lampeira at Prusch last September: http://www.figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1279634913&postcount=10

Note: I often misspell it as Lampiera which is really silly considering I don't mix up the order of the vowels in my surname.


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rafed

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Reply with quote  #7 
Thanks Harvey,

This was on my want list for a long time because I hear such great things about it. It's been so long on the want list I forgot what color it was. LOL
I was promised a plant but I guess it was brushed aside. I left it alone, long story and I'll keep it to myself.

Anyway,
A fig friend sent me a bunch of cuttings recently and I just started to them yesterday.

But the bus was going at the time;)
nelson20vt

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Reply with quote  #8 
Lovely pics Francisco. I knew carvalhal was a San Pedro type but never though it was the same as lampeira. Unfortunately I lost my Lampa preta this winter but am rooting some Lampa Branca so far so good.

Also rooting some lampeira cuttings from France hope it's a real lampeira.

Also had the lampeira Harvey mentioned but never ripened any main crop for me the three seasons I had it.

Nelson

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lampo

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Reply with quote  #9 
Thank you All for looking at those pictures and commenting on these Lampeira preta brebas.

Long, long time ago, Gustav Eisen wrote:

quote/....

This fig belongs to the San Pedro class, the trees sent to Niles through the Department of Agriculture having matured splendid second-crop figs after having been caprificated. It is certain, however, that the Lampeira is one of the finest of all first-crop figs, and that it should be widely distributed. ...

unquote/ ......

Those lines were written almost 120 years ago! I see no reason for not trying again
As a breba, it will be as good as BT if not a 'bit' better (?!)

James,

I believe that on some community of Portuguese people in California there will be a Lampeira preta.
For many years,  around here it was sort of 'mandatory' to have one of these fig trees on every backyard

Rafed, Harvey

There is in fact a Lampa Branca fig, two crop and fully parthenocarpic. Sweet and flavored mostly used in preserves . Brebas much smaller than those of Lampeira Preta
I hope to show this fig later in the season.

Francisco





lampo

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Reply with quote  #10 
Hi Nelson

Your post came while I was preparing mine.
Yes, Carvalhal is believed to be synonym of Lampeira preta. Sorry to hear you lost your Lampeira.
Will send you an email tonight

Best wishes
Francisco
elin

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Reply with quote  #11 
The pictures are amazing.
Francisco can you describe the taste profile?
doesnt look like the carified incharios you showed before so i assume they were not pollinated?

BTW my potted trees are growing slow  for some reason- maybe soil maybe slow developing summer-  are you experiencing this in portugal?

thanks

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lampo

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Reply with quote  #12 
Hello Eli,

Thank you for commenting those pictures.

This San Pedro breba fruit (our Lampeira)  has to be appreciated among their kind.
Being in general terms a large or very large fruit and ripening in spring mostly (in my area they come in May-June) this fruit cannot develop too much sugars...limited sun-hours, fast ripening, etc.   However they are very 'fresh'  sweety and flavored.

Eisen called it - ...one of the finest of all first-crop figs - ...

To my knowledge, brebas are parthenocarpic and cannot take any benefit from pollination.. by the time the insect shows up with the pollen these brebas are already ripen and cannot take any advantage from pollination.
Lampeira preta apart from all those characteristics is also very juicy, without being watery.

Smyrnas (Incharios for instance) and the Lampeira main crop which behave like Smyrna are different fruit, much smaller in size higher sugar concentrations, ripening through the long sunny days under  much higher ambient temperatures, enough time to develop those aromas, flavors, juices, colors  etc.. and the benefits of pollination, filling the tiny seeds with tasty fertile kernels (the crunchy flavor)  thus boosting the overall appreciation of this fruit.

Both Lampeira and Incharios , if you under the tree, with plenty around you, DO develop the feeling
of...just one more!..and another one... this big one if left behind will rot.. well I will take it.. and it is very difficult to stop !

Francisco
Vladis

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Reply with quote  #13 
Франциско, спасибо за фото и подробным описанием рис.
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lampo

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Reply with quote  #14 
Thank you Vladis
Lampeira should be OK near the Black Sea

Francisco

(Lampeira должно быть в порядке в районе Черного моря)
jdsfrance

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Reply with quote  #15 
Hi Lampo,
Nice looking fig. Can you put something ( a coin ) next, to have a scale ?

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lampo

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Reply with quote  #16 
Thank you jds. Sorry,  have no coin now!
Hope the pictures , dimensions and the scale reading will convince you...

Mr. Eisen in his book, page 248, speaks of Lampeira brebas with sizes 4.5 inches by 2.5" ...fruit 1 inch longer than what I am showing.. It's not difficult to find Lampeira brebas of 200 + grs

Francisco

P1010382.jpg  P1010383.jpg  P1010386.jpg  P1010388.jpg

FrozenJoe

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Reply with quote  #17 
Wow!  Looks nice.
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Aaron4USA

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Reply with quote  #18 
@Francisco, I notice purple lining on the last cut fig picture , yet not in the 5th pic from top cut fig. 
I have been noticing this "purple lining" between the meat and pulp in pollinated figs in LA.
Is there any factitious reality to what I have been noticing?
greenfig

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Reply with quote  #19 
Very nice! I hope to taste them at some point
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lampo

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Reply with quote  #20 
Thank you fellows for commenting those pictures.

Joe, From what I see in your videos and given your location it could be grown over there..(?)

Aaron, The detail you are talking about (more or less diluted between skin and flesh)  appears on a number of figs be they of whatever variety and class. I think that is a matter resulting from different aspects of their cultivation, nutrients, soils irrigation, climate etc etc...

However, on some varieties, like the one shown on the following pictures, also a breba, this purple 'ring' is more evident and appears on every fig, it's in its genes I believe.
Also shows up and well marked on a family of good Caprifigs (Shelb) and associated to deep red/violet fig pulps..Common and Smyrnas.

Igor, Aim looking forward to see what comes up.. give it, timely,  organic fertilizer and JUST the water it needs. The bright brown skin, and the full juicy pinkish/brown pulps will certainly show up.
Then as you are in fig Paradise do not give up the main crop figs... smaller with an unmatched flavor, sweet and genuinely CRUNCHY ..By the time you pick up the luscious brebas early morning, you see the wasps busy pollinating the still small and green main crop figs...a couple of inches on the side !

Francisco

P1010308.jpg

Gwenn

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Reply with quote  #21 
Hello Francisco,
Do you have a pic of the leaves of Lampeira? I bought a Lampeira plant in a nursery in south of France but I'm not sure if it is a true one, and I'm not convinced at all!
It has long leaves especially the central folioles wich are very elongated.
I live in western Brittany where summers are very cool, only brebas mature here, we can't get main crop figs even with the earliest varieties like Ronde de Bordeaux or Pastilière! So I'm looking for good brebas varieties like Lampeira. Do you know some others?
Obrigado
Yves

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Yves
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lampo

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Reply with quote  #22 
Hi Yves,

I am attaching some pictures of branches of Lampeira Preta and hope it helps.
Your description of ... <it has long leaves especially the central folioles which are very elongated>
does not correspond to the leaves I am used to see on ' Lampeira preta'

This variety shows , I would say, about 50/50 lobe less and three wide lobes
Never seen any appreciable quantities of other kinds/shapes of leaves

You may have a different cultivar and may be we can repair that  !?
Tonight or tomorrow, I shall be showing another early breba , - 'Principe' -  also popular in the south of Portugal but not comparable with Lampeira.
Francisco

P1010666.jpg  P1010667.jpg  P1010668.jpg  P1010669.jpg 



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Reply with quote  #23 
Hi Lampo,
The last pic is amazing ! So many figs on a single stem ...

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Reply with quote  #24 
Francisco,
thank you very much for the pics! Well I had good reason to doubt about my Lampeira! the leaves don't look at all like the one in your pics! I'll post a pic of mine tomorow.
Now I have something else for three years!
I wonder why it is impossible to find Lampeira in France! Even Baud nursery don't have it! It would do great here, if the figs are so tasty so early in late spring in Portugal, I'm sure it will do as well here probably in august! with such amount of brebas! Dauphine and Croisic are the only ones to have a good breba crop, I'm trying Grise de Saint Jean with very good result too! It would be great to add a new variety!
I'm also trying Desert king which gave me a dozen figs for thr first time last summer, very disapointing, the taste was coarse! hope it gets better in future.
Anyway I would love to try it if you have the possibility to find and to send me a plant, I will pay it plus the fees!
Thank you!!

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Yves
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Reply with quote  #25 
francisco,

that looks very nice. my lampo Preto is still hanging in there. i put a clear cup like you suggested and now they have small leaves. i'm accmulating them now so they can grow.

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***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
lampo

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Reply with quote  #26 
OK Yves
Will work it out, during next dormancy, I shall find a young plant
Please remember me.

Francisco
lampo

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Reply with quote  #27 
Hi Pete,  Thank you
Long time no talk !!

Have you seen any roots ?

Francisco
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Reply with quote  #28 
Francisco, again great photos. My Lampeira slowly taking root, little strength in thin cuttings.
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elin

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Reply with quote  #29 
Francisco great pictures.
I wonder how much water i could save by growing san pedro's and not having to water during the realy hot months...

any input?

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lampo

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Reply with quote  #30 
Thank you for looking at that Lampeira

Vladis,
Normally it's a good rooter regardless of the cutting size/thickness

Eli,
Bear in mind I said this a ground tree where you can afford to economize a lot of water.
I assume yours are containerized and that would mean frequent watering...

Francisco
Gwenn

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Reply with quote  #31 

Here you see a pic of my now unknown figtree.
Francisco, you said that Lampeira and carvalhal are the same variety but I can read here and there that they are distincts varieties!! According to Ira Condit in his "Figs varieties: a monograph" : about Lampeira
"Tree moderately vigorous. Leaves small; deeply 3-lobed.
"  a bit like mine in the pic!! yours are not deeply lobed!!?
figuier02.JPG


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lampo

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Reply with quote  #32 
Yves,

This leaf is not much different from the leaves of Marseillaise  or Cavalliere..

Carvalhal, accordingly to the Ag Extension of the Min of Ag in the Algarve, is synonym to Lampeira Preta and I accept that.

May be I have taken pictures of the wrong tree !?

You have to wait and see the first fruit.
One has to be cautious with those Monographs. They are great works but do have several imprecision's. I never noticed this description of the leaves of Lampeira Preta being with deep lobes..-absolute non-sense !!-
(with a good glass check my pictures and see if you find one such leave)
As an exercise, compare the Baud description of the typical Pastilliere leaves and what Eisen says ans sketches on his book.

Francisco

Serge

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Reply with quote  #33 
Thanks to Francisco this southern lady (Lampa Preta) going to be tried in far north 50N latitude in ground, zone 5.
Very grateful to him for this gift.
Also thank lampo for 2 more varieties he added (Perola and Rogil). Probably rare varieties as there are very few information, not clear if these are could be tried in ground up north (early or late ripening)...

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Timo

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Reply with quote  #34 
Hello Sergei, I’m looking forward to hear how Lampeira Preta performs in your climate. What winter protection are you going to provide?
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Serge

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Reply with quote  #35 
Hello Timo,
Usually I bend shrubs to ground (better 10 sm below), than carpet or linoleum or flat wood cuts.
Above some soil for weight and solid structure.
Above all dry organic I have (leaves, pine needles...).
Above that is snow (not stable in my climate).
Even after -30C (-21F) winter fig trees were not bad condition in spring.
In a year will be clear how it feels under protection, I will tell...
From previous practice, 5-7 winters only 1 variety from 10+ was really bad after this cover. It was Gris de Saint Jean (Seriy Ranniy by Nikita Botanic Garden). All the rest were good or not too bad in spring.

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Wish (maybe in future): Grantham's Royal, DauphineNazareth, Enrico, Morena, Gentil, Filacciano Bianco and others breba prolific, reliable, tasty (San Pedro, common).
Serge

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Reply with quote  #36 
Observations for northern growers.
Lampa Preta appeared to be most sensitive to first small frost, all leaves were killed.
Other varieties have partial, minor or no frost leaf damages.
Wood hardening is good enough.

All that means that LP should be opened latest in spring to avoid even small return frost for these who grow LP in ground (as this looks for zone 5).


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Zone 5b, Ukraine (north), Europe.
Wish (maybe in future): Grantham's Royal, DauphineNazareth, Enrico, Morena, Gentil, Filacciano Bianco and others breba prolific, reliable, tasty (San Pedro, common).
lampo

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Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serge
Observations for northern growers.
Lampa Preta appeared to be most sensitive to first small frost, all leaves were killed.
Other varieties have partial, minor or no frost leaf damages.
Wood hardening is good enough.

All that means that LP should be opened latest in spring to avoid even small return frost for these who grow LP in ground (as this looks for zone 5).


Serge,
Glad you managed to get it through winter.. in ground, and not in their best environment. You see.. it's a plant thriving on dry and hot/sunny  climates .. best above z8 or 9. Here (z 11) , on the best seasons it pumps tons of large brebas and with plenty of energy left for their main crop. Please remember to show the fruit when it ripens..
Francisco

Serge

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Reply with quote  #38 
Francisco,
thanks for kind comment.

It is first summer, will be first winter for LP. But wood hardening is normal and there should not be major problems if covered good enough... Only one variety from dozen failed to get through 3 winter and was sent to south. This was Grise de Saint Jean (or is known in Ukraine, Nikita botanic garder as Seryj Rannniy).
What important for up north is to avoid return frosts for leaves and breba.
Lives of LP are a bit more sensitive to frost than other varieties and should be opened from winter cover later than other varieties like RDB, MBVS, Svinita, Randino... 


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Zone 5b, Ukraine (north), Europe.
Wish (maybe in future): Grantham's Royal, DauphineNazareth, Enrico, Morena, Gentil, Filacciano Bianco and others breba prolific, reliable, tasty (San Pedro, common).
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