Register  |   | 
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment  
greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #1 
Harvey demonstrated a use of his double-bladed budding knife in his thread about grafting BM after Francisco’s beautiful video.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/my-black-madeira-on-bt-update-to-include-budding-7146842?pid=1284976079#post1284976079

I checked the price of that Tina T671 knife and it bites hard, it is about $200 :(

So I made my own, it costs almost nothing and the blades are replaceable !

I tried how it works and the fit of the buds is amazing. I now want to have a few of different sizes.

I call it a “Budding razor” !

Enjoy!

Edit: To protect my hands while keeping the razor in storage, I used 2 pieces of electrical tape as a sheath.

razor_1.JPG 


Attached Images
jpeg razor_2.JPG (83.34 KB, 88 views)
jpeg razor_3.JPG (158.98 KB, 90 views)
jpeg razor_4.JPG (87.04 KB, 95 views)
jpeg razor_5.JPG (84.61 KB, 92 views)
jpeg razor_6.JPG (98.82 KB, 95 views)
jpeg T671.jpg (15.06 KB, 96 views)
jpeg razor_7.JPG (179.98 KB, 66 views)


__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

Grasa

Registered:
Posts: 1,819
Reply with quote  #2 
Genius, now show it at work...
__________________
Grasa
Seattle, WA
Aaron4USA

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,967
Reply with quote  #3 
Love it!!
I'm gonna make one for me.
Ruuting

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 612
Reply with quote  #4 
AAH, innovation!
Love it.

__________________
Rui
Southeast CT, zone 6B
greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasa
Genius, now show it at work...


Yeap, this weekend I will be doing some grafting!
I also got the budding rubber for this purpose. 

Another benefit to have a sharp point, after you made a cross cut with 2 blades, just cut along the stem to make a patch with a tip. Since the blades are new, the patch edges are very clean.

__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal
greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
Love it!!
I'm gonna make one for me.


Aaron,

I think it is a good idea to have one larger screw and one smaller on each blade.
The smaller screw would give you some wiggle room for tuning and alignment of the blades.

__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal
cis4elk

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,761
Reply with quote  #7 
Igor you are clever! I was thinking about using re purposed saw blade, cut/shaped/and sharpened to knives and then screwed to the block. But I didn't even consider sheet rock blades, waaaaaay easier. Funny thing is I have hunting knife/tool which uses a sheet rock blade, I should have thought of that too.
Attaboy!

__________________
Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6
Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves.  :)
lampo

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,376
Reply with quote  #8 
Igor,

That is a nice, ingenious  and cheap 'walnut budding knife' as they call it
Some of our traditional (old hands) farmers follow this same concept the blades coming from scrap carbon steel rusty saw blades.
Shoemakers also use the same scrap saw blades to make their very sharp knives.

Some go a bit further and use the concept for the pair of vertical cuts
The wood 'handle' surfaces  will have to be cut to angle the blades

Francisco
Portugal

FiggyFrank

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,755
Reply with quote  #9 
Outstanding, Igor!  Looks like something I would do.  No way could I justify $200....heck, even $50 for something that can be manipulated so easily.
__________________
Frank
zone 7a - VA
cis4elk

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,761
Reply with quote  #10 
Francisco,
The blades on the budding knife slightly angled inward, like a slight V-shape? Can you take a picture of yours head-on so we can get an idea of the angle?

__________________
Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6
Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves.  :)
greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #11 
Calvin,

I thought Francisco meant the vertical cuts, along the stem (oriented ground to the sky on a tree). Those need to be V-shaped to be perpendicular to the bark surface.
At least that’s my understanding.

I believe the cross cuts made by a Tina knife are parallel.

__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal
cis4elk

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 1,761
Reply with quote  #12 
Just to clarify. I was thinking that the cuts would be parallel, however the surface/face of the cuts would be angled like a V.
__________________
Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6
Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves.  :)
lampo

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,376
Reply with quote  #13 
Calvin, Igor,

I do not have that knife for the vertical rectangle sides but a quick tabulation tells me  that assuming you are dealing approx with 1/2"  to 5/8" diameters stock/scions , a 80 to 90º degree angle could well do it. You would need to adjust the blades position on the wood 'V' handle, for the arc length you need before fixing the screws.

But the simple twin blades done as per Igor's 'patent' , two small pocket knives glued/welded on a convenient spacer, the carbon steel saw blades,.etc.. are more than enough for the purpose and if done properly (very simple) and at the right timing, it hardly fails.
Let' bud now !!

Francisco
brackishfigger

Registered:
Posts: 288
Reply with quote  #14 

most grafting knives are only sharpened/beveled on one side, allowing for a flat/planar mating surface, with the bevel pushing the "waste" side away. 

As I read it, the double knife uses the same single-sided bevel, with the bevel facing out on both sides, but since the thickness of the cut is only bark-thick, there is probably minimal angling of the cut on the beveled side.  The scion bark would therefore be cut/removed with 90 degree angles ("inside the knives"), and the rootstock would have edges that slightly taper in towards the removed bark ("ouside the knives"), but the latter not enough to matter. 

I would expect the razor blade set up to work very well for this too.

greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #15 
Francisco,

I would like to clarify for myself here.
When you talk about adjusting the blades position on the wood 'V’ handle, do you refer to making the A cuts or B in the drawing below?

diagram2.png 


__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal
lampo

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 2,376
Reply with quote  #16 
Igor,

I mean the B1 and B2 sides of the rectangle.
the needed blade adjustment on the block handle 'V' sides would give you the desired linear dimension for  arcs A1 and A2 for a proper size patch.

If you draw a mid section of the tool  you have in mind on a given scale, rapidly you will find the close detail of the ideal size for the wood handle, and the slope/angle  for the surfaces where the blades are to be fixed with screws-You shall have to start with an average size/diameter stock/scion.

For these particular budding tools (not a grafting cutter) , IMO,  a beveled blade is not necessary.

The beveled blade is needed  for the plain, uniformly flat cuts on the scions for cleft, bark, skin...  grafting, .. the two main and exactly similar cuts on stock and scion for whip as well as whip and tongue grafts,  to extract the scion wood chips for 'T' budding,  side grafts...etc..etc

Budding and Grafting is fun.. believe me!
Prepare and train your skills for the coming grafting and budding to start in February (Cal)

Francisco
Portugal
greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #17 
Francisco,

Thank you for our explanation. I understood you correctly then.

My tool was designed for the A cuts, it is straight and that is how it is supposed to be. 
I believe the A cuts are more important since a good match there would keep the scion alive and support the healing.

The B cuts are trickier since the cut sizes would depend on the scion size (curvature, diameter) and its straightness but also important.
I will think about the design.



__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal
HarveyC

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,318
Reply with quote  #18 
Good job, Igor.  I suggested something similar to Paul in SD, perhaps using blades for a carpet knife.  I believe the fact that the blade is sharpened on both sides is of little consequence.

In the video of the expert grafter/budder (located in Lake County, about two hours north of me), he said the vertical cuts do not need to be a close match and, in fact, he suggests that it's better of the rootstock's cuts are a little wider so that there is room to push tube bud patch in. I noticed when placing the bud patch that it does push out sideways and fill in the gaps.  But the only really importing union being formed is at the top and bottom along the horizontal cuts.

For reasons I've never understood, traditional budding tools include a lifter that is made from either brass or ivory (or maybe plastic these days).  I believe it's thought that any sort of steel has some sort of harmful interaction with the bud material.

We have had nice weather here and I hope to do more budding this next week.

__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyC
Good job, Igor.  I suggested something similar to Paul in SD, perhaps using blades for a carpet knife.  I believe the fact that the blade is sharpened on both sides is of little consequence.

In the video of the expert grafter/budder (located in Lake County, about two hours north of me), he said the vertical cuts do not need to be a close match and, in fact, he suggests that it's better of the rootstock's cuts are a little wider so that there is room to push tube bud patch in. I noticed when placing the bud patch that it does push out sideways and fill in the gaps.  But the only really importing union being formed is at the top and bottom along the horizontal cuts.

For reasons I've never understood, traditional budding tools include a lifter that is made from either brass or ivory (or maybe plastic these days).  I believe it's thought that any sort of steel has some sort of harmful interaction with the bud material.

We have had nice weather here and I hope to do more budding this next week.


Thanks, Harvey!
I will do some patch budding too.
My understanding is that steel oxidizes and interacts with the moist tissue and could be not desirable in the budding business.
On the other hand, in the video, the grafter suggested not to use the lifter but to try to slide the patch off sideways (if I remember it correctly), so the lifter may not be even necessary.
If needed, I have a lifter on the actual grafting knife.

Good luck with your budding!

__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal
ediblelandscapingsc

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 350
Reply with quote  #20 
Thanks for sharing Igor, I love the way you use what you got. I'll have to make me one also, I plan on grafting about 700 trees this coming spring and will be sure to try this on some of them. If you get a chance please post some pictures of your grafts after they take. 
__________________
South Carolina zone 7b-8


greenfig

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 3,254
Reply with quote  #21 
Thanks, Daniel.

700 ??? Like in 7 hundred?  I am just curious why so many.

I will take the grafting photos for sure and post them. I am waiting when my rootstock tree is ready but will try to practice tomorrow to cut and match the patches on the twigs from wild figs (no shortage of those).


__________________
Igor (not James!). Wish list: Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.