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MichaelTucson

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I know a bunch of you are interested in matching up "somewhat old European names" with "newer world names".  But for those who don't read or speak Latin derivatives, there's some extra challenge to matching up the European names with newer names.  (As if there weren't already enough challenge to matching fig names!). Not to mention that the history of these fig varieties does go back to before the age of most of current European languages, and many of them probably came from other places before Europe anyway.  Still, in general most of the European names predate the current American names.  So here's a listing from a nursery near Firenze in Toscana (Tuscany).  I think that some (all?) of these translations from Italian to English were provided by another member on the forum here. (And I'll leave it to him to identify himself if he wishes and if he did this translation also.  We had another thread with some related information that was connected with others in Italy who know of this nursery near Florence / Firenze).  

What caught my eye this time around was that they've added some of the synonyms with names that have been used by members here  (e.g. Bizzarria di Sori, aka Panache, though I wonder which name is older and more widely used in Europe -- "Bizarre from Sori" or "Sorian Bizarre" is sounds so much more colorful!).  (Note -- Sori is a town or section within the province of Genoa, Italy.  So literally this translates to something like "bizarre fig from Sori").  Another of these figs resembles eggplant at least in color and exterior appearance (John's variety pages make reference to that... I'm talking about Melanzana ).  There's a lot more that could be said about matching these old world names to the ones in use today in the U.S. and by members here.  (For another day or other postings by anyone who wishes!).  Happy Easter everyone - 
Buona Pasqua a tutti. 

Mike   central NY state, zone 5 
p.s.  Nero means black, Bianco means white.  (And who was the guy who said "the secret is in banging the rocks together?"  :-)


LIST of FIG trees from nursery catalogue (some are not available):

Albo - ottima varietà, tra le più resistenti al gelo, coltivata soprattutto in Toscana per i bei fichi dorati dal sapore delicato. Produce fioroni e forniti di buona pezzatura.

Great variety! This particular fig is among the most resistant to frost. Grown in Tuscany mainly for its beautiful golden figs and delicate flavor.Produces brebas and a main crop of large sized figs.

Batignanese - Forse il fico degli etruschi; medio piccolo, esternamente verde giallo e rosso all’interno. la pianta è unifera ed il frutto ha un caratteristico leggero sapore moscato.

This fig may have been grown by the Etruscans. It is a medium to small fig, green-yellow on the outside and red on the inside. Produces one main crop. The fruit has a characteristic light moscato-like (Muscat grape) flavor.

 Bizzarria di Sori (syn.Panascè/Panachè) - Con il suo frutto dalla buccia striata verde e giallo è veramente un’autentica bizzarria. Polpa rosata di buon sapore. Produzione bifera. la varietà e tipica della liguria e della Costa azzurra.

With green and yellow striped fruits, this is truly a unique fig and worthy of the name Bizzaria. The rose colored flesh is of good flavor. Produces a breba and a main crop. This variety is typical of Liguria and the Côte d'Azur.

Brianzolo - Produce solo forniti, in epoca intermedia (primi di agosto). ne esiste una varietà rossa ed una bianca, entrambi particolarmente resistenti.

Produces only a main crop, usually in early August. There are two different varieties ; one is red and the other white, both are considered very cold hardy.

 

Brogiotto Nero Romano - Simile al precedente ma con frutto più allungato.

Similar to Brianzolo, but with a more elongated fruit.

 

Brogiotto Nero o Fiorentino(Sinonimi: Africano, Barnisotto, Bernisou, Bertino, Brogiotto fiorentino, Brosciotto, Fico della Marca) - Tra i fichi neri di Toscana,sicuramente ilpiù saporito. Frutto medio, schiacciato e conpeduncolo corto.Maturazione molto tardiva.

Of the black figs in Tuscany, this variety is considered to be among the tastiest. The fruit is medium sized, with a short stalk giving it a flattened appearance. It ripens very late.

Brogiotto Bianco (Sinonimi: Brogiotto Genovese, Brogiotto Gentile, Genovese, Monaco)- Simile al precedente ma a polpa bianca ed epidermide verde.

Similar to Brianzolo, but with a white flesh and green skin.

Buzzone nero - Frutto di buona pezzatura, nero violaceo, con doppia produzione. la prima non troppo precoce e la seconda veramente tardiva,arriva fino ai geli. entrambe le produzioni risultano ottime.

Produces a purplish-black fruit of large size in two crops. The first is not very early. The second crop comes quite late in the season almost to the time of frost. Both are excellent in flavor.

 

Callara - È chiamata anche Rossa. Originaria dell’Abruzzo, si fa apprezzare per i bei fioroni rosso vivo, costoluti e spanciati e per gli ottimi forniti settembrini, un po’ più piccoli, ma veramente squisiti.

This cultivar is also known as “Rossa”.It is native to the Abruzzo region, and appreciated for its beautiful bright red ribbed, large brebas, as well as for the excellent main crop, a little smaller, but very delicious.

Cavaliere - Compete con il Brogiotto per il primo posto tra i fichi neri. È infatti molto delicato e buonissimo. ha forma piriforme e fenditure bianche a completa maturazione.

Competes with Brogiotto for the very best in black figs. Produces a very delicate and delicious fruit, pear-shaped and with white slits when fully ripe.

 

Cori - È un ottima varietà che produce fioroni di pezzatura elevata e forniti sempre abbastanza grandi. l’epidermide è verde, la forma è piriforme e la polpa rossa.

Cori is a great variety, producing large sized brebas. The second crop produces fruits of almost equal size. The fruit is pear-shaped with green skin and reddish pulp.

 

Dall’Osso (Fetifero) - rarità botanica a frutto nero violaceo di ottimo sapore e forma variabile. Produzione limitata.

Botanical rarity, purplish black fruit of excellent flavor and variable shape. Limited production.

Dattero - Fico da essiccagione per eccellenza. Piccolo, marroncino e senza peduncolo. risulta molto dolce e con giusto rapporto polpa semi.

Excellent drying fig. The fruit is small and brownish in color with a non-existent neck. It is very sweet with the right proportion of pulp to seeds.

Di Tre Volte - Questa particolare qualità di fico, in luoghi ben esposti,produce frutti fino a tre volte in un anno. il loro sapore è fine e delicato.Antica cultivar  toscana con albero molto esuberante,  è una delle poche varietà che in condizioni favorevoli (regioni del Centro Sud) produce tre volte durante l'anno: fioroni, forniti e camaruoli. La foglia si presenta da intera a tri o pentalobata.

This particular fig, if grown in full sun, can produce up to three crops per year. The fruit has a subtle and delicate flavor.

Dottato (Sinonimi: Ottato, Napoletano, Fico dalla Goccia, Binello, Binellone, Dattarese, Buttada, Calabrese, Regina, Bianco) - È il classico fico dalla goccia, eccellente, dolce, zuccherino al massimo, matura i suoi forniti da metà agosto e non necessita,come gli altri qui descritti, di nessuna impollinazione.

This is the classic teardrop-shaped fig; excellent, sweet and sugary, maturing in mid August. This variant does not require pollination.

Filacciano Bianco - il nome significa praticamente fiorone, e infatti,questa varietà laziale si fa apprezzare soprattutto per il primo fico, verdee piriforme, dalla polpa ambrata molto fine e delicata.

The name Filacciano is synonymous with “fiorone” (breba), and in fact, this variety from the Lazio region is appreciated for its early green, pear-shaped figs with amber flesh and very fine delicate flavor.

Gentile - una delle poche varietà del centro italia che produce fioroni chiari,molto precoci nella maturazione. il tipo è adatto per coltivazioni di alta collina, dove le varietà più tardive non riescono a maturare. 

One of the few varieties from central Italy that produces very early maturing brebas with pale green skin. It is suitable for growing in high elevations where the late maturing varieties often won’t have time to ripen.

Lungo del Portogallo - Produce fioroni e forniti simili al S. Piero, ma più allungati e con colorazione rosso-violaceo.

Produces a breba and main crop, similar to S. Piero, but more elongated and with a red-purple skin.

 

Melanzana - Fico bifero molto conosciuto in Calabria ed in Sicilia, dove da abbondanti fioroni rosso-violacei allungati ed ottimi forniti della stessa forma, ma di dimensioni più ridotte. Polpa rosso rosata fine e delicata.

A two crop producer (bifera), well known in Calabria and Sicily. Produces an abundance of elongated reddish purple brebas and a similar but smaller fruit main crop. Pulp is delicate and pinkish red.

Monaco - ha questo nome, perché la polpa dei suoi bei fioroni precoci,risulta avvolta all’interno dell’epidermide, da un velo violaceo, tipo una tunica. il 2° fico è un po’ meno interessante.

Monaco’s name comes from its beautiful early brebas. The fruit is wrapped up within a violet colored skin that some have likened to a monk’s tunic. The 2nd crop of figs is a bit less interesting

Nerucciolo dell’Elba - varietà molto selvatica e rustica. Produce piccoli fichi neri tardivi, dal sapore asciutto e molto gradevole.

This variety is very wild and rustic. Produces small black late figs with a dry taste that is very pleasant

 

Piombinese - una delle varietà più antiche. il Gallesio lo rappresenta nella sua grandiosa pomona ottocentesca. Bello, molto scuro, slanciato,particolare soprattutto quando a completa maturazione, le sue fenditure biancastre, contrastano con il blu violaceo dell’epidermide.Ha due produzioniche ,danno entrambe ottimi frutti.

This is one of the oldest varieties in Italy. It can be found in the famous compendium, “Pomona Italiana” by the 17th Century botanist, Giorgio Gallesio. The purplish-blue fruit is quite dark and slender. When fully ripe, it forms characteristic white slits that add to its attractiveness. Both crops are of excellent quality.

Paradiso - varietà bifera che produce frutti dolcissimi e mielosi. epidermide verde e polpa rossa.

Bifera (two crop) variety that produces honey sweet fruits with a green skin and red pulp.

Pendolino rosso - rosso brillante nell’epidermide e rossa anche la polpa, per questa varietà bifera bella e buona. Ottima produttività,maturazione tardiva.

With its bright red skin and pulp, this bifera (two crop) variety is not only beautiful in appearance but also flavorsome. It has excellent productivity. The second crop is quite late.

Pissaluto - Tipico della liguria, dove è considerato a buona ragione tra i migliori. Produce solo forniti, piccoli, allungati, dolci e raffinati.

This variety is typical of Liguria, where for good reason, it is considered among best. It produces a main crop only. Figs are small, elongated, and sweet. They have refined taste.

Rossellino - anche questa varietà, dal frutto rosso e abbastanza piccolo,si fa apprezzare soprattutto per la maturazione intermedia del fornito,che avviene in un momento in cui ritroviamo maturi pochi altri tipi (fine luglio in Toscana). il frutto è asciutto e dolce e si presta anche all’essiccazione.

This variety, with its reddish fruit and relatively small size, is valued mostly for its intermediate time of maturation. It comes at a time when few other varieties are available (at the end of July in Tuscany). The fruit is dense and sweet and lends itself to drying really nicely.

Romagnolo - e’ un’ottima varietà a frutto chiaro, epidermide verde, polpa rosata. Fiorone di pezzatura estremamente grossa, di buon valore organolettico. Fornito di pezzatura medio-grossa, dolce e saporito. varietà senz’altro meritevole di coltivazione..

This is an excellent variety displaying fruit with clear green skin and rose-colored flesh. The brebas are extremely large and of good flavor. The main crop produces medium to large sized fruit that is sweet and tasty, certainly making this variety worth growing.

S. Pietro (Sinonimi: S.Piero Nero, San Pietro, Santa Piera, Colummo)- varietà bifera con fiorone grosso, bruno violaceo e screpolature longitudinali più chiare. Questo matura ai primi di luglio, mentre il fornito, molto più piccolo, a fine agosto. varietà eccellente anche per l’essiccazione.

This is a bifera (two crop) variety with large brebas, purplish brown in color and with white longitudinal slits when fully ripe. This first crop matures in early July, whiles the main crop, much smaller in fruit size, matures at the end of August. It is another excellent variety for drying.

S. Pietro Bianco (S.Piero Bianco) - di forma simile al S. Piero, ma colore dell’epidermide verdastro e polpa più chiara.

This variety is similar in shape to S. Piero but with a greenish skin and a clearer pulp.

Salame -varietà bifera tipica del nord, in particolare dell’oltrepò pavese. il frutto è bianco e allungato sia nel fiorone che nel fornito, con polpa rosso vivo. ottime entrambe le produzioni.

Bifera (two crop) variety typical of northern Italy, and more specifically from the Oltrepò Pavia area. The fruit is white and elongated with red pulp in both the breba and main crops. Both are excellent tasting.

 (listing truncated -- f4f forum limits to 65,000 characters per posting)

 

 


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MichaelTucson

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Reply with quote  #2 
Here's "part 2"  (the part of the listing that was cut off because it exceeded max characters).
---------------------------------

Sementino - Piccolo fico nero che matura in Toscana molto tardivamente.Forma piriforme allungata, sapore buono, dolce e aromatico.

Small black fig that ripens very late in Tuscany. Elongated pyriform shaped, with good flavor described as sweet and aromatic.

Turco - Probabilmente il nome deriva dal suo colore, molto scuro nella buccia con polpa rosso vivo. Buono il fiorone, di grande pezzatura e ottimo il fornito, di pezzatura medio grande.

The name Turco (Turkish) probably derives from its very dark skin color. The pulp is a vivid red. The brebas are large and tasty, while the main crop is medium to large in size.

Verdino - Frutto esternamente molto verde e piccolo, interno rosso deciso.Buonissimo.

The fruit from this variety is very small and green. The interior is solid red. Taste is really good.


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MichaelTucson

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By the way, I'll not vouch for how accurate some of the descriptions of the name origins are in that information.  It's pretty clear that whoever wrote it was willing to speculate and is not an etymologist (nor necessarily possessing of any level of scholarship regarding word/name origins).  For example, their description of Turco (Turkish) focused on skin color, while ignoring the possibility (or even probability) that their Italian name for that fig derived from that fig having been brought from Turkey to Italy at some point in the past.  (Or possibly other resemblances with fig varieties that they found in Turkey)  

Still, overall this listing may provide some insight or "suggestions" for those who wish to match European names with current U.S. names.

Mike

<<edit -- nor will I vouch that they got the synonyms correct, though it's at least a starting point.  (For example, they indicate Monaco is a synonym for Brogiotto Bianco, yet they list both and have pictures that do not look identical). >>

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hungryjack

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelTucson
By the way, I'll not vouch for how accurate some of the descriptions of the name origins are in that information.  
It's pretty clear that whoever wrote it was willing to speculate


 Based on my conversation with a highly respected fig person in Europe,
besides the lack of accuracy with naming,
it extends to the varieties themselves as well.

 This individual grew out several of their cuttings,
and they DID NOT grow true to varietal information,
they were different varieties completely,
this includes the famous   Fico Dall'Orso.

 If you ordered from this nursery,
be prepared for dissapointment in a few years
when you finally start to see figs.

 Or, ignore the advise, and learn on your own the hard way.   :-)

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MichaelTucson

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Hungryjack -- thank you for responding.  I had already seen enough signs that made me wonder about the veracity of those who sent me this info.  (An email address called sarta.online).  That is actually a secondary reason I had for posting this -- wanting to find out if the source of the information is reputable.  (I had asked about that in another thread, and at that time received only positive comments about them, though I think there was only one person who commented).  I've generally found that open flow of information ("opennness") is a great tool for finding truth.  I'm glad to learn of your acquaintance's experiences.  Still, I hope for some first-person responses, as that would be better still.  

Anyone have first-hand experience with this Florentine source, via sarta.online?

Incidentally, I did not order from this nursery (whose name I don't even know, incidentally).  Do you know the name of the nursery?  I received the info from an email sender (sarta.online) connected with an ebay seller, which appears to be not directly connected with the nursery  (if said nursery exists).  Rather someone offering to broker sales / shipments from this nursery, which they don't identify.  Sounded questionable enough.  I had previously bought something else from the same seller though, not connected with this nursery (caveat emptor notwithstanding... it wasn't much money and I had protected the accounts appropriately.  And I did receive what I bought).

By the way, I also had a primary reason to post this.  Any open dialog about that might be helpful too.  Does anyone here know if any of the synonym information is true or not?  For example, they suggest that Brogiotto Nero is the same as Barnisotte and Fiorentino.  And that San Pietro (Saint Peter) is the same as Colummo.  Anyone on here have enough experience to know if those synonyms really match up?  (Or even if they're close?).

Mike

<edit:  I suspect their grammar was meant to show Brogiotto Nero = Brogiotto Fiorentino = Barnisotte, though it's a bit ambiguous the way they wrote it>.

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apnoist

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Reply with quote  #6 
San Pietro = Dalmatie
Fico Fetifero or Dall´Osso is a fig that maybe does not exist any more.
rafed

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Reply with quote  #7 
Mike,

Fico Fetifero or Dall´Osso will soon pop up at an Ebay near you.
Please stay tuned.
cis4elk

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Reply with quote  #8 
The picture of Dall`Osso, I wonder could that be I-258? I don't have either, but that was the first thing that came to mind.
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shah8

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Reply with quote  #9 
While looking for threads about Caveliere, I stumbled upon this italian rare fruit thread...  http://giardinaggio.efiori.com/forum/orto-e-alberi-da-frutta-f15/21374-frutti-insoliti-1.html.  Lots of pictures, lots of unusual fruits, plus discussions of pawpaws, actually--there seems to be a strong and genuine interest in pawpaws in Europe.

Have fun with google-translating this timesuck!

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Especially desired figs: UCD 187-25, UCD 200-48, UCD 157-17, UCD 309-B1, Princesa, Black Madeira, high quality sugar fig that ripens Sept-Oct.

Probable desired fig: Smith, St Jean, JH Adriatic, CddB, Gulbun, Pastilliere, Sucrette

Rooting:  Smith, CDDB--this pretty much means I have my fun tries (tho' important since they are truly desirable), and only interested for this year: Gulbun, BM, 187-25, or something wildly exotic or precious that nobody has any good reason to send me.

MichaelTucson

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Hi Shah8.  -- I have Cavaliere (though not yet old enough to produce fruit).  At least a couple of others here on the forum have that one too, including the guy I got it from (a reputable guy on the forum here, mgg, who told me his source and I trust it's authentic).  I'm mainly interested in Cavaliere because it's common in Calabria, and so there's a personal connection for my father.

Calvin -- I don't know whether those are related.  I don't really know about Dall'Osso (Fetifero) in general, except that from the comments here it sounds a bit hyped (and maybe mythical or maybe gone?).

Rafed -- you mention that it'll be on ebay (Dall'Osso)... does that mean you've gotten that fig from someone, documented and whom you trust?

All -- I was actually kind of interested to learn about the Nerucciolo dell'Elba, but don't know anything about it.  From the description (late fruiting) it sounds like it wouldn't do well here in the land of cold winters and short growing season.  Does anyone on here have that fig (from a reputable source)?  Like I said, I don't plan to grow it because it seems not a fit for my climate, but I'd still be interested to hear what it's like if someone on here has it.

Also, plenty of "suggested" synonym info in their list.  

Mike   central NY state, zone 5

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shah8

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Reply with quote  #11 
can I see pics of the leaves?
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Especially desired figs: UCD 187-25, UCD 200-48, UCD 157-17, UCD 309-B1, Princesa, Black Madeira, high quality sugar fig that ripens Sept-Oct.

Probable desired fig: Smith, St Jean, JH Adriatic, CddB, Gulbun, Pastilliere, Sucrette

Rooting:  Smith, CDDB--this pretty much means I have my fun tries (tho' important since they are truly desirable), and only interested for this year: Gulbun, BM, 187-25, or something wildly exotic or precious that nobody has any good reason to send me.

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Reply with quote  #12 
Michael

There was a time when a rare and unusual fig pops up on the forum and to only later some scrupulous sellers offers it on eBay.
I was being a smart a$$. Sorry

I do not have it nor do I know anyone that does.
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Michael, this is what I think I know:

Lidia and Tatyana are sisters. They emigrated to Italy from Russia many years ago. Lidia lives in Siracusa, Sicily. I am not sure if Tatyana lives in Florence or just travels there to buy nursery stock to sell on ebay with her sister. I tend to believe the latter. They call their ebay enterprise seed4garden and in fact sell much more than just figs. My communication with Tatyana was nothing but friendly and helpful, to the degree I volunteered and translated her fig list descriptions gratis. I do not believe there is anything nefarious or dishonest going on. They are just two ladies trying to make a living. As such, they do not claim to be fig experts and rely, as we all do, on the messy, unwieldy fig nomenclature we are all very familiar with.

Not to be dismissive, but just like life in general, "You pays ya money and ya takes ya chances".


On to another tangent..."Colummu Niuru" (Colombe Nero/Black Dove).

I spoke to my older brother this weekend. He remembers this fig growing up in Calabria (I do too but didn't remember the name) as a prized, huge, black, delicious fig. Nelson posted a while back that he had this specimen but turned out to be Sal's Corleone. I hope that his specimen was mis-labeled.

Frank



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North Florida Figs
MichaelTucson

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Reply with quote  #14 
Frank, Yes, I've been corresponding with them too.  And they seem nice, and I have no reason at this point to mistrust them.  But I don't think that they are necessarily the same as this one nursery that they described/forwarded materials from.  (I asked that above somewhere but didn't get response).  I too got what I paid for when I purchased other things from them on ebay, so am not trying to besmirch their names.  But I am concerned about this one nursery that they apparently deal with, based on hungryjack's comment.  Meanwhile though, it has been a nice and friendly conversation and couple of transactions.  But I think I won't deal with that nursery.

So, regarding Culummu Niuru / Colombo Nero / Colombre Nero, my father remembers it from Calabria as well.  (When he was young, maybe 4 or 5 years old, many years ago).  This sounds like the same fig his father had picked some and filled his straw hat (staining it with a stain that lasted many years).  Based on the synonym suggestions in that nursery listing, they seem to suggest that Culummu Niuru (Sicilian) / Colombre Nero (Italian) = San Pietro / Saint Peter.  But Jon's info on San Pietro includes:  
  • Brebas: light-green, oblique-pyriform with prominent neck, medium eye, dark strawberry pulp. Sweet and rich. Main crop: large, turbinate mostly without neck, yellowish-green, above medium, open eye, light pink pulp.  
That doesn't sound even close to the large black brebas for Culummu / Colombre.  So I'd conclude that the synonym information in that listing above is not very worthwhile.  (Too bad... not sure if I should leave this posted with the warnings that it doesn't look right, or delete it so people don't mistake it for reliable info).

Mike 

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pako

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Michael,
There is one nursery near Florence ,that could be the original source .
vivaibelfiore.it
One of the owners released a book:
"Il fico -pianta Mediterranea Della fortuna"

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BronxFigs

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Reply with quote  #16 
Wonderful information and a good "read".   Interesting to see the descriptions translated into English.....I just wish the descriptive names of the figs were also translated.  Some of the varietal names I could guess, but others...no clue.

Nevertheless, thanks for the listings.



Frank

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Reply with quote  #17 
Pako from Bulgaria is correct, this is the catalog of vivai belfiore in Florence, an italian member of this forum who is a serious fig person has pointed out to me that this nursery has a bad reputation, the ty ty of Italy, you will probably not get what you bargain for with them.  He also stated to me that they "invented" the bizzarria di sori fig, that it is quite simply a rip-off of the well known Panachee fig.  I would not waste my time with them.  As for the sisters, they seem decent enough but they are not fig experts, they just are trying to make a living I guess, and they are not intentionally deceptive.  I have exchanged some queries with them, but ultimately, you have to look at their source.  If it is Belfiore, by all means buyer beware.

Edit: http://www.vivaibelfiore.it/catalogo/pdf/catalogo2012.pdf

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MichaelTucson

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Reply with quote  #18 
Prior threads, related info:
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/a-few-good-figs-5187362
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/vivai-belfiore-4594485
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/italian-to-english-6246942

However, regardless of any antics of that nursery near Firenze (and regardless of whether anyone there claims they "invented" this fig), I do still wonder about the name "bizarre (fig) from Sori".  Which name preceded which?  Bizzaria di Sori or Panache (or Panachee)?  (Or Variegato, or Signora Panachee, or Fracazzano Rigata, or...).  I haven't seriously researched the etymology of the name, nor any of the historical references to Panache/Panachee (at least, no further back than Condit, or Starnes and Monroe.  Probably it can be traced further back with some effort).  But it's at least plausible that a descriptive name like "the bizarre one from Sori" could have been in common usage for quite a long time in the old world.  I mean, how many nero ("black") figs are there?  And how common is it for mispronunciations to appear as phonetic spelling variations later?  (Just look at Jon's varieties pages, where examples of that abound.  Or think from your own experience, for any of you who are old enough to see the extreme plasticity of language).  Still, it's also possible that some nitwit with a hack sense of marketing just made up the name at a TyTy-like nursery in order to try to sell more plants.  I didn't research that.  But when I started this thread, it was about names, and about various info that might help to match long-time old world names with the modern "new world" names that we've glommed onto.  (Now there's a word with a strange history!  Glommed, I mean).  For example, the variety we call "Hardy Chicago" had a name back in Italy, long before it became known as Bensonhurst Purple (20th century) and later Hardy Chicago (later in the 20th century).  Yet how many of us even know that name?   For any of you who want a puzzle to solve, here's a hint:  older names for Hardy Chicago can be found on this forum site, where it has been discussed before.  There was also a discussion of it on that yuku site.  Consistency of a name/word is only as broad as the community that recognizes that name... 

What's in a name?

Mike   central NY state, zone 5a


<edit> P.S.  Thank you Pako for referencing the source, and thank you to all who join in the discussion!

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cyberfarmer

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Reply with quote  #19 
If anything, this was a good opportunity to brush up on my Italian. Che figata!
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Paul the Fig Tree Destroyer in Fallbrook, CA (Zone 10A )

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Reply with quote  #20 
Mike, i understand what your saying.

You mention Hardy Chicago  + Bensonhurst Purple, yes many made up names from folks in different area's, Chicago its suppose to be Hardy along with Bensonurst a small area in Brooklyn NY , hence that name derived there perhaps.


 Mongibello.  ; )

 
rafaelissimmo

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Reply with quote  #21 
Mike you are absolutely right about names, I just wanted to share with you what I learned from a member on the ground in Italy. There are a lot of striped figs in France, Italy and Spain. Most of the French are Panachee. Most of the others are impossible to find. Othe than Panachee I don't think any other striped fig is commercially available. And yes, I too have heard of the Mongibello, my ancestors are from near Mt Etna! The Belfiore catalog is certainly interesting to look at, thank you for translating it.
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Reply with quote  #22 
Bump for some to have an enjoyable read posted by Mike.
MichaelTucson

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Reply with quote  #23 
Martin, I see you pay attention to old names.  Very cool.  You too Rafaelissimmo.  Cool.  It's fun to try to match them up sometimes.  Gets difficult because so much history of figs involved informal and very localized naming.  But fun anyway, especially when you find a really colorful name.  :-)

Mike

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