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Subject: Salvage a Moldy Cutting by grafting? Replies: 22
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,276

  I received some cutting of a cultivar I really want, but the cuttings came to me moldy. I cleaned them with a 10% bleach allowed to dry and refrigerated them, and they continue to develop mold, and I repeatedly take them out clean with bleach and still mold forms. I am pretty certain if I try rooting them in a humid bin I will never be able to keep the mold in check.  I am thinking to try grafting them as I hoping I might be able salvage them on a host plant and by wrapping the entire scion tightly with Parafilm and being in a the open air environment with no roots forming I might still be able to deal with any mold forming. The buds of most plants will push right through the Parafilm assuming they will with fig as well.  If the graft takes later I could start by cutting or air layer to get the plant on own root. Opinions and suggestions are appreciated.


Subject: Anyone answer a question about AU Rosa plums? Replies: 54
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 4,833
You will be successful with the pear, they are easy to graft and the Bradford callery types you can graft both Asian and Euro pears to. If you want to give it a go I still have several types of Pear scion available so just let me know. The callery seedlings are becoming real pests in some areas. Couple years ago I bought a couple clearanced Brafords for a couple bucks planted them down by the creek and grafted them into a multi Asian tree.

Subject: Anyone answer a question about AU Rosa plums? Replies: 54
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 4,833

I am going to try and graft the ones I picked up Sunday on my existing plums and pluots. I am not a big fan of multi-graft trees, but there is so much I want to try and not sure how much limited space I want to dedicate to fruit that I will probably lose the bug battle with. I have not grafted plums before , but if I fail it's only a few branches on a existing tree

Subject: Inadvertently met a couple of F4F folk today Replies: 6
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 947


Was good to meet you guys and some others as well. You will just have to move out of downtown into the country and get all those potted figs into the ground, and then I’ll get you hooked on persimmon. As more of a general fruithead then a fighead I know my fig collection will never be on a par with yours and a lot of folks here. If you get frustrated with the plums and their pest issues let me set you up with a low care persimmon with no pesticides around the baby and fruit you will actually get to eat.  I half expect I will be pulling up my plums, pluots, peaches, and be out of stone fruit except for my sour cherries in a few years.

Subject: Guess Who Is Waking Up Replies: 9
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 893


If that wind would blow my squirrels out of the tree and leave them stunned I would welcome it. I would have been out of breath after that minute they laid there scrambling around finishing off as many as a could.  I understand not everyone feels that way, and I am not really a hater, and they are what they are. 

Subject: Osage Orange / Hedge Apple / Bois d' Arc / Bodock, etc Replies: 10
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,826
I grafted 3 che on osage orange last spring and they all took and made good growth. You can order it with your figs from UC Davis they sent me 1 scion which I cut in 3 and used a bark graft. I have never heard prior of grafting a cornus/dogwood on OO. I would question that being sucessful.

Subject: root cutting propagation? Replies: 12
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,309

Thanks Folks. On grafting as George notes I don't know if there is a cambium on a fig root, and maybe will not generate a leaf bud either and that’s  why I have never seen a plant develop. I have grafted a few other genus but not figs, but maybe I will try on a cultivar that is noted as non vigorous .  I want a plant to be able to come back true to cultivar after a freeze, but I do try a graft I will probably have to try on above ground wood as I can’t see try to align cambium on the fig root I just looked at. I assume  some part of a trunk must remain on the trees that come back from freezing to ground. Just glad It’s just not me on them developing solely from root wood.

Subject: root cutting propagation? Replies: 12
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,309

  I have tried a couple times without success of starting a new plant from a segment of root.  When my potted plants expanded their roots into the ground I simply tried to snip if out with a couple inches above ground. As well as figs come back when everything above ground freezes I thought this would be workable, however I was not successful. Moving my plants in prep for colder weather and several have expanded from their pots. I know that means it's probably time to move them up a pot size, but I will undertake that in spring. Any advice appreciated.


Subject: what happened to ... "question for dan_la" thread? Replies: 16
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,483



I am pretty sure that would been a native Diospyros Virginiana, probably not a named cultivar. Most of the native trees have pleasant fruit after softening and the astringency is gone. If you ever tried a firm one you would remember it.




 I graft some of my own. Last year I ordered seedling Diospyros Virginiana from the state forestry service inexpensive seedling programs to try and graft some scion I was obtaining but the rootstock was really too small and I should have let it size up, I got several to take with the whip graft on some of the smaller scion, but most scion was too large for the rootstock. I tried chip budding those later in the summer with little success. My main failure was the small rootstocks where not established enough and I was grafting on to bare root stock. The limited grafting I did prior was bark graft on to established tree and had very high success.


 You can graft to either Diospyros Virginiana, Diospyros Kaki, or Diospyros lotus. Some cultivars have reported incompatibility with Virginia. I know on the east coast most use Virginia. It is the most cold hardy, is more tap rooted, which has good and bad points, and is probably the most adaptable to soil conditions. I am not saying it best I know west coast places use both Kaki and Lotus, but I have only had Virginia to work with. If any of your Kaki have seeds use them, but I doubt with the 2 cultivar you have they are seeded. I don't believe either of them have male flowers. I don't have any seeds right now, but I can be on the lookout for some. they are not uncommon trees here. You just have to beat the deer, coons, possums, and development to them. I already PMed with you about the scion.


I have never tried airlayering or heard of it being tried on persimmon.  Rooting the cuttings I have read is possible, but not easy.   I am pretty novice myself with them.  There is a lot of good info on the GardenWeb Fruits&Orchards  forum, but they seem to have issues with their archives it seems many times I look for a past informative thread it seems gone.

Subject: what happened to ... "question for dan_la" thread? Replies: 16
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,483

The Persimmon cultivars I am trying are listed below.  all are Asian Kaki with the exception of Early Golden which is a American. and Nikita's gift which is a hybrid of Asian X American. Of my own trees I have only tasted Fuyu, Saijo, and Tamopan. This is 3rd year planted for a couple of my trees, and 2nd year for most. I have tasted a few others.

The 2 most general categories of persimmon would be astringent and non-astringent. You can get into Pollination factors on astringency but I won't detail that here. Astringent's need to soften prior to eating, Non-astringent can be eaten hard or soft, and normally are best just as they start to soften. 

 The astringent ones you would most likely encounter in your stores would be Hachiya, or Tanenashi. Hachiya is very nice and grown commercially in California, but reportedly bears poorly in the southeast, and I have not planted it for that reason. Tanenashi was one of the earliest planted cultivars on the east coast and bears heavy and reliably, but most consider the fruit inferior and the ones I have tasted were comparatively dry and pasty. But I have never tasted one fresh ripened from the tree, so possibly it would be like comparing a tree ripened fig to store produce one.
  Non-astringent you will find will most likely will be labeled Fuyu. Fig's are not the only fruit with naming confusion. Fuyu has at times been used generically for any non-astringent. Much of what is grown in California as Fuyu is actually Jiro, as well as some Matsumoto Wase Fuyu I have been told. I have Fuyu that have fruited from 2 different sources and they are different, but I have not had that many fruit to compare them side by side yet. I think most taste pretty similar and the degree of ripeness and when are they are picked is probably a bigger factor. You can eat a non-astringent any time after it colors ups, but I find them  bland early compared to just before they soften.

Of Astringents I always hear positives on Saijo and Giombo.

Of Non-astringents I think all the Fuyu and Jiro and it's sports are pretty similar tasting, at least to my palate, which may not be that discerning. I know that Izu took 1st place at one taste testing that was done at the same time as a Pomegranate testing, but as Izu is one of earliest ripening NONs maybe the timing of the event factored in.

There are PVNA cultivars that are astringent when hard when not pollinated, but when seeded are supposed to be very rich tasting. I have tried a couple fruit, but have been trying to keep my fruit seedless, so those currently are not my focus. A couple of them would be Nishimura wase and Chocolate. I think more that one cultivar is sold as Chocolate as well. The flesh of PVNA around the seeds turns brownish as well related to the astringency leaving when seeded.

What I have to this point:

In Ground:
Great Wall
Matsumoto Wase Fuyu

Newly purchased planting soon:
Nikita's Gift
Hao River
Newly Grafted on very small rootstock and praying:
Maekawa Jiro
Giomba (same as Giombo??)
Early Golden  

Subject: what happened to ... "question for dan_la" thread? Replies: 16
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,483

Persimmon is my favorite fruit I am growing, yes I love it above figs. I have about 12 cultivar, but not all producing as of yet. Kngskid was asking about TANENASHI as I recall and I was going to respond, but did not, as I actually don’t grow that cultivar by choice. I have tasted it and always thought it was pasty and dry and while it has good production and even when pollinated produces seedless fruit as I understand there are others I prefer. It is one of the first cultivars to be grown extensively on the east coast, but I there are better cultivars in fruit to my taste.  I do grow Saijo, and while a smaller fruit as far as the astringent cultivars it always seems to get high praise and I agree.

Subject: baggie method on other cuttings? Replies: 4
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 697

Rooting a persimmon cutting is generally consider not workable, they are grafted onto rootstocks. I am not stating it can't be done and I have read that it has, just not a rooting friendly genus

Subject: Quick one - grape help Replies: 20
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,271

The one with the larger teeth around the leaf does not look like my Reliance or my Himrod, but mine are small and have not fruited yet, and just assuming they were labeled true.

 One excellent source of info  on bunch grapes is Lon J. Rombough site  he is the NAFEX Interest Group coordinator and one of the foremost  authors and authorities on grapes. He has both pictured and as a grape specialist you can be pretty sure he has the correct cultivar pictured, unlike a lot of general nursery photos

Subject: Grape Cuttings Replies: 28
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 2,084

I have a Concord Seedless that probably could have a few cuttings removed.  Actually its still in a pot and I have not read real favorable reviews on it, I'd love to trade it for some fig. I also have Reliance, Catawaba, Concord and Mars in pots.  Mars is better all-around than Concord Seedless. I think I have one Himrod but it is a real small weak plant.

Subject: Pawpaw Replies: 115
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 10,848
Here is the main Kentucky state link. They are the  USDA National Clonal Germplasm Repository or gene bank, for Asimina species (pawpaw), so they are kind of like UC Davis for figs, but I don't believe you can request Scion wood, but there is a lot of cultural info on the site

Subject: Pawpaw Replies: 115
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 10,848


Sorry The seeds did not make it. Yes the seeds would have been fresh and at least a start on stratification, not scarified. I don't remember when I sent them, they were probably gathered a little later in the year then present last year. If you did not give them additional cold stratification after I sent them that might have been the issue I usually leave them in slightly moist peat/sand until around Feb and they no take forever to germinate. I don't recall when they were sent. At least one patch I visit had no fruit this year, I have not have made to the other patch yet, It's about 1 1/2 hour away and I may be to late regardless.  


 I someone wants a year jump some of the State Forestry depts. do have Papaws in their seedling programs if someone was interested in a quantity of non-grafted seedlings, and at least some of them are made available to out of state. They are small conservation grade seedlings, but they are cheap. In the Kentucky Forestry offering it lists 10 seedlings for $24 dollars shipped, or I think $50-$60  for a 100 seedlings. I would get them from Kentucky as their seedlings are from the pawpaw orchards at Kentucky State University who is probably the leading force in the development of new pawpaw cultivars, They also just hosted the Third International Pawpaw Conference I think this past weekend. There is as well is a Yahoo discussion group for Papaws I have linked below as well.



Subject: Wter barrel with floating sunflowers seeds Replies: 20
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 2,507

I just use a 30 Gal standard size trash barrel, with the board across. I usually remove our bird feeder for a few days and place this in the same area.  I thought about using a single sheet newspaper or maybe a thin plastic under the seed to keep them from sinking and looking wet, but I never tried it. A few years ago I probably disposed of a least a dozen in less than a week. I didn’t care for the task, but the damage they were inflicting had to stop. I actually am afraid I have created a locally super race of squirrels.  All the stupid stand still and get shot or go swimming. The smarts live to reproduce; because of recent it  did not work as well.  I actually set up one with the deeper type bucket at one time and that is a tricky getting the water deep enough but not so they can reach down, it is better going with the full size trash barrel or such, as I doubt an escapee would make the same mistake. The key I think is setting up where they frequent and that small sampling of seeds on the board.

Subject: Wter barrel with floating sunflowers seeds Replies: 20
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 2,507
sorry that was the wrong thread link

Subject: Wter barrel with floating sunflowers seeds Replies: 20
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 2,507
Not sure if it was my post you were refering to but that is the BOD "Bucket Of Death"  I was referencing to in the squirell damage thread. I did not want to go into a lot of detail, because  prior time I posted on it I got spamed and spoofed I assume by some animal rights folks because I received thousands of emails as well a XXX email sent out to everyone on another forum list I below to sent from "MY EMAIL"  or maybe it was Squirell themsleves extracting revenege on me because I have found the BOD very effective

Subject: squirrel damage Replies: 30
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,335
Actually as I read closer it seems they are just using your nice potting mix to bury things  and uprooting the current resident fig in the process, and not so much in eating your figs plants, and I have that problem as well. I tried the POP BonBons during that Fruit forum thread that Cathy posted, and do not believe it works as most folks concluded. The "bucket of death" can be effective, particullary if you  have sunflower seed normally out, and you remove the normal seed source and replace with your BOD for a few days.

Subject: squirrel damage Replies: 30
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,335
Are you sure it is Squirrels? I hate them with a passion, and pay my son for each one he kills, but I have never had them mess with plants themselves. Fruit, vegtables, bulbs, yes, but the actually plant not that I am aware. Maybe I have been lucky. Did they actually eat any part or just pull it up and gnaw. If they are that hungry to eat fig bark you might have luck with the "bucket of death" approach. I won't go into detail but you can google it and I know the general fruit forum has some posting on it.

Subject: Pomegranates Replies: 48
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 4,941
I  have 2nd year plants of Salavatski, Kazake, Angel Red still in pots. I am  letting  them size up one more year prior to planting out. I don't think Angel Red is that cold hardy, but Salavatski and Kazake are a couple of the Russian Cultivars that according to Bass, Harvey, and others are pretty cold tolerant.. I am trying to root cuttings from  Al-sirin-nar,  Lyubimyi (aka favorite),  Parfianka (aka Garnett Sash I beleive),  Kara-Kalinskii, and Ink. Lyubimyi is reportedly prety cold tolerant as well. Most of the more cold hardy cultivars seem to be of the harder seed types. I would be intrested if anyone knows of a cold hardy soft seed cultivar

Subject: What else do you grow? Replies: 106
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 9,150
Much of my planting are young and not producing yet, and hoping I can still list some of these things after this winter.
21 Cultivar Blueberries
9 cultivar Bunch grapes
8 cultivars apples
7 cultivar pears European and Asian
7 cultivar Muscadines
7 cultivar Kaki Persimmon (doubling that this year)
6 cultivar Blackberries
4 cultivar Pomegranate
4 cultivar Pecan
4 cultivar Pawpaw
4 cultivar Kiwi
3 cultivar Raspberries
2 cultivar Jujube
2 cultivar black walnut
2 culivar Carpathion walnut
1 cultivar cherry
Trazel nuts
Nanking Cherry
6 cultivar Citrus in pots

Subject: DEER WARS Replies: 18
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,266

Yes, that’s a bit far. You folks over there in Athens like your hedges, maybe you can get UGA to get rid of that nasty privet hedge and replace with a Fig one like yours.


I agree Suburban deer can easily get out of hand, I have never hunted them and half scared if my son gets one that I would have to help gut it. Besides the accidents they cause, in areas not hunted and with predation they can overpopulate their food sources and deseases as well become more of an issue for them. In some areas I believe they are a major contributor to decline of trillium and other wildflower populations.


Removal of them is often controversial, as they are impressive animals and some people never want to see anything harmed, but sometimes the conditions we create need fixing when things get out of balance and it’s really evident at this time of year as the population is more active moving about and with the crazed bucks chasing the does all about and across the roads.



Best Figs to you I will be watching Sports Center for your interview with Coach Richt on the new Fig Hedges.


Subject: DEER WARS Replies: 18
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,266


I'm not saying a deer will never eat a fig, but that picture was a antler rub, The felt is gone by this time of year, but yes they do rub it off. Your fig was a basically a punching bag, A few years back a Japanese Maple I had sculpted/trained into a multi-trunk went from looking like 12 point to a button buck overnight. Where abouts in North Georgia are you located, if you are serious about wanting hunters, my son is always looking for a place to get his 1st deer, we are located in Hickory Flat just south of Canton. He actually just purchased a crossbow as he is finding the deer population is much larger in the protection of suburbia, than in the country, and the crossbow doesn't disrupt the neighbors at daybreak like the rifle does. That note about the buck runing into the hardware store is sure sign that rut (breeding season) is on, and over the next month or so really watch when you are driving, and notice all the road kills.

Subject: DEER WARS Replies: 18
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,266

Yes the Rut is on in Georgia as of last week. Those bucks that for most the year are elusive  lose all their good sense when love is in the air.  They hit one of my Kaki persimmon this weekend. I have had more damage like this from antler rubs than actual eating. I don't think they actually probably even ate any of your fig just thrashed it to bits.

Subject: Pawpaw Replies: 115
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 10,848


Most Pawpaw are not self-fertile, so you should plan on 2 trees. There a only a few that are self-fertile. The Sunflower cultivar that Bass is one of the self-fertile ones, but it is said to produce better with another cultivar planted as well. I have 4 cultivars that are young and not fruiting yet, but have access to some wild trees as well that fruit and the question about if a patch may not produce becuase they have all developed from same root system and are all one clone is very possible. If someone is intrested in some seeds to start I probably can still find a few. My wild trees don't produce very big fruit and are seedy, and I have been told Pawpaw come closer to coming true than many fruits from seed so unless you plan to graft them over. I would start with seed from a selected improved cultivar.

Subject: Georgia Fig from 1800s Replies: 12
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,463

That seems to be it, I didn’t expect 100% consensus, but you all called them the same. I have a couple started plants of each.  I think the owner is going to prune them back next year so more of the fruit is within reach. Jeff, your pictures look more like my figs than my pictures, I am not very good either side of the camera, and really appreciate the photo’s.

Subject: Georgia Fig from 1800s Replies: 12
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,463

I just posted and then saw Herman posted as well, so it seems very likely I will have a Marseilles white to go with the Marseilles VS black I purchased from you recently on Ebay. I am hoping I do better with those cuttings then I did with the Col De Dame and VDB I started from UC Davis this spring. I move them up to 1 Gal. recent and the leafs yellowed and dropping this past week and I am thinking too wet. The Marseilles VS black are not that far along yet, maybe they will benefit from my learning of on the UC Davis cuttings

Subject: Georgia Fig from 1800s Replies: 12
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,463

Thanks Folks,

The Marseilles looks like a likely suspect for the light one, reading that it is a heirloom fig, the ribs which this fig does have, the ribbing is very pronounced on the immature fruit, and maybe these were not quiet ripe, but they were very soft, and moist. I thought the dark ones looked like Celeste myself. I am not going to label either one, other than Unknown, just curious about what they could likely be. Jeff that would be great if you could post a pic of your LSU fig, there is a crunch to the seeds, but I am not any sure more than the dark ones. I just ate the last light one, and the interior was still very light colored but softened even more almost to a jelly texture. Guess I need to go grab some more this weekend.

Subject: Georgia Fig from 1800s Replies: 12
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,463

I think they are ripe Jason, but I may be wrong, The ones in the tree picture are not ripe  The ones on the plate are very soft and moist, drooping from the stem on the plant, and the birds and hornets were eating ones just like them. I ate a lot of them. Some of them may have been a little more yellow and the interior is a little darker than the picture looks. Maybe my palate is so not so discerning, and  a few days might have improved them. You are not far away I have read your post about checking out local trees downtown. These are about halfway between Alpharetta and Canton, you are welcome to check them out if you want. Thanks for the input on the dark ones

Subject: Georgia Fig from 1800s Replies: 12
Posted By: strudeldog Views: 1,463


Been reading this forum for a while, but  my 1st post. I normally hang out in a general fruit forum, as you Fig people seem a little Cult like to me, but I admit I did taste the Kool-Aid and I like it. I am in North Georgia and have about 6 six Fig cultivars, and quite a lot of other fruits. I started some plants from a Friend’s figs that have been in her family here locally a little NW of Metro Atlanta for a few generations.  I know you figheads probably get tired of identifying posts over and over, but the variation in the leaves of even the same tree seem to confuse me, The dark one they have always called Brown Turkey, but I know how generically that label has been used. It actually looks more similar to Celeste pictures to my novice eye. The light fig is the one I am more curious about. This is not the original plants I have pictured, they have been started from their prior home place, but she actually stated they have been in her family since the late 1800s. The plants do not receive good light, and in my opinion are overgrown and leggy, but are both maturing fruit right now. The dark one is sweeter than the light fig, but I find the both tasty. Thanks for any input, and I hope I am successful attaching the pictures.

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